It is. It is that day again, its its when were here live to talk about microdrone 4.0. Now the purpose of todays show is intended to really refocus the situation surrounding the micro drone 4.0 crowdfunding campaign, which, despite the fact that its actually suspended on the very platform its used to raise the majority of funds indiegogo. The campaign owner still insists that theyre working on the product and refuses to comply with the contractual obligation to provide refunds. So, where are we whats happening tonight, is going to be that micro drone 4.0 reality check so that we can check and see really whats actually happening were going to be joined this evening by two people with different relationships with the campaign and the owner. One is a a youtube channel owner who was actually the first person to bring this to media lights. It was ash from droning on. I know you all will know him very well. A few of you have been messaging me to say how much you were looking forward to seeing him on air again, so were very excited about that all by itself separates the micro journey thing and we also have joey edwards joining us. Who is actually one of the early supporters of the microdrain 4 campaign? Uh one of the original backers um, which of course, this campaigns been going since 2019, so its um incredible that were still talking about it and were still talking about it.

In terms of this, drone is allegedly a couple of months away and thats within the last 24 hours that again theyre confirming shipping within the next three months. Now, just a little bit of housekeeping very, very quickly. We we, we always keep the live, chat open on these live streams, and we always like to have you know really everything from the point of view that everybody has a voice and everybody can speak. That includes yourselves. As you know, weve often had microdrone and vernon in the chat in previous live streams. Lets just keep things not particularly personal. We take the swearing filter off slightly because i know this. This subject can get people rather animated, but you know no spamming. That type of thing, if its a specific question, you want uh the panel to consider or or answer or talk about, please at geeksvana, so that i can see that so without further ado ill stop gas bagging on and well bring the panel in hi guys. How are you could you um? Could you just introduce us a little bit to how you found out about the campaign and um how you found out about the product, what sort of led you to want to back micro drone for in the first place yeah? So i basically came across the store at the top of the show, which is, i think, march 2019 uh. So vernon was there himself sort of showing off the micro drone 3 and then they had their sort of campaign.

Video for micro, drone, 4 playing. In the background um – and it was just through talking to him, um and just sort of his confidence in the product and how he told me like the beauty of this – is its not like normal kickstarters or things like that, its um. The beauty of this one is id, have it in my hands within the next couple of months, right, um and unfortunately, ive sort of resolved on that. Okay, yes, indeed, im just going to fix one very quick thing: weve actually got a an echo which i can solve by pressing that button. There apologies everybody, oh, that was um, that was skype um the good thing about skype integration. Is you get lots of warnings now, so i actually got the warning about the same time. The chat started telling me so: apologies everybody there so yeah, i mean its its its interesting because obviously this the campaign was very proactive at getting out there and talking to people and that that was one of the things that i noticed and it it this isnt. Something where were looking at a situation where we have just a failed campaign or a campaign thats struggling or something like that. To me, a lot of the feedback that ive had from the backers is that they feel like theyve, been misled and frankly lied to and thats. I i think, thats really where the anger starts to come into this um.

Would you agree with that ash absolutely yeah, and the sad thing is really that this isnt new with microdrone fall. This was exactly the same case with microdrone 3 and thats. Unfortunately, where i first encountered vernon in reviewing early versions of that drone, i provided loads of feedback, lots of them melted. In fact, i had two that just destroyed themselves when i tried to review them um they sent me replacements. They broke down as well with parts of the circuitry, just melting and failing, and i put out very honest reviews and in in the exactly the same way as hes um, misleading the backers. Now he did the same back then as well, and in fact he had a gimbal which started as a two axis mechanical gimbal. It ended up being a one axis: mechanical gimbal and most of the backers didnt even receive it. Yes, so its sad to see history repeating itself and vernons very proud to say that most of the backers from microdrone 3 backed micro, drone 4.. Well, sadly, you tend to find in the crowdfunding arena, theres a lot of people out there with hope and optimism and they like to see people inventing things, and they just hope that the next one will be better. But the sad reality is that youre throwing your money away with reinvesting in backers like in crowdfunders like this, where theres a track record of things just not being very successful. Now indeed, and when you look at this particular um indiegogo page, you might be excused to thinking this is the 4.

0 page, because theres people saying you know four years and no shipping it sucks. You know that waste of time and money. This is actually the micro drone, three um page um. So, as you say this, this wasnt without warning and, of course were talking about a very different project here, because the the micro drone, three and and – and you know a lot of companies – do this and theres no issue with this in particular. But you are talking about the type of product that was essentially it wasnt a fresh, fresh, build. You know its taking a lot of a lot of sort of. You know um of the mechanics and a lot of the tech that was already there and repackaging it into a micro drone product which is fine so, but obviously, with the micro drone 4. They then stepped up to trying to make a completely new drone, essentially, which is seems to me to be where the technical side of things has gone down, because, of course we know how much you know how many companies weve seen come and go and companies even The size of hubsan that cant get a new dome right, so its not its, not particularly surprising that somebody tried to make a new drone. But it is just that its that misleading nature, its the fact that theres theres, no honesty, um and in in in terms of with the backers. One of the first things that i noticed very early on was that, actually that there was this huge pool of people, people like actually like joey, who, who who work in in particular industries and have specialisms that actually could have helped.

So actually, if, like other crowdfunding campaigns, it was more of a community and saying okay, ive invested in you now im part of that community. I want to work with you. He had some really bright people that he could have sat down and spoken to and and and talked about, the problems and that type of thing, but it was the you can, of course, only have those honest opinions if youre being told the truth. In the first place, you only have those honest discussions, if, if you know all the information and of course, that that that just isnt happening um, i think the the big problem they also have is that whenever theres, a statement made by vernon hes, just not people Have been misled so many times by the guy that they dont believe a word that comes out of his mouth now: um theres, a certain delusional element there as well, that he believes he is the best drone creator uh ever um. In fact, an update was posted. Five or six minutes ago, on the crowdfund page, coincidentally, really um, and you know one of the phrases there is weve been fortunate to have some of the best minds in the drone industry. I mean that thats delusional theyve actually posted a new update this evening. Have they eight minutes ago yeah as soon as this went down thats it that this is? This is one of the things that frustrates me and you know i ive.

I often feel like i dont want to do streams. I dont want to do videos unless ive got some real content to bring people theres, something that we know were working all the time behind the scenes, with all sorts of contacts as far as trying to find out whats going on with this campaign. But you know i dont like to, but we do seem to trigger him frankly, um and isnt. It sad isnt it instead of just honoring his commitment to the backers that have put their hard earned money into him. It takes somebody uh, a youtuber to start a live stream to talk about the honesty of the project, to actually get an update after three months, thats from the last update before this absolutely crazy. Whats worrying, though, in this latest update theyre showing design changes. So the tooling is still not finished, despite this guy opening this campaign, with the statement that this is ready for manufacturing its designed its tested and apparently drone critics have given it rave reviews. Well, how can they have reviewed something that just doesnt exist yet also one thing that is very frustrating to me and i know joey, you will probably feel the same is hes talking about um being at london technology week, which, ironically, i was supposed to be at Actually so its a shame, i think colin didnt see you there vernon um, but hes talking about the fact that they demonstrated their latest sample two within london technology.

Why hasnt? He demonstrated that to the backers yeah exactly its just so far, weve just seen a a cheap budget, drone floating up and down a corridor weve seen some horrific outdoor footage of uh the drone wobbling around in the sky, including some onboard footage which was terrible and Triggered the bbc into writing their own conclusion. I mean its if this drone is truly capable, why is vernon terrified to actually show it and what it can do, especially this? The the neural features yes supposed to happen and thats actually one of the interesting things that ive always found for someone as a campaigner, and this is just from a purely um. It confuses me frankly that someone that is so keen to communicate. That will send me. You know i sent him an email and notifying him of this show and giving him right of reply on certain things which he which he didnt provide, and i then got 30 something email replies to. You know all sorts of different, so someone thats so keen to speak to people and so keen to defend their position, although theyre always attacking when theyre defending their own position, but anyway, if if this drone existed in anything more than just parts at the moment, i Honestly feel that he would have shown it just to just to shut me up if anything else, exactly i mean lets. If i, if any of us here were the owners of a campaign like this, we all know how easy it is to publish a youtube video.

You can take a video with your phone and put it onto youtube within five minutes. If i was a campaign owner, i would be giving full transparency and giving a video every single day makes me want to start a drone, crowdfund campaign and partner with some really genuine best minds in the industry exactly to produce something decent, because i honestly think that Even if we couldnt produce, as a you know, a decent drone, we would certainly be honest. Wed have integrity, we would be trustworthy and the communication would be excelling in comparison to to the the smoke and mirrors that we see in this campaign and its. You know its no, no surprise that theres nobody saying anything good about this. Apart from these apparent fake accounts, yes well, it is, it is um it its something when you, when your campaign gets to uh 37 000 comments um on a campaign page and you, you cannot find positive ones in there, unfortunately uh which, of course, with any campaign. As i say, if the campaign fails its a completely different thing, people understand that. Okay, guys, we tried to do this, we failed. This is where we failed heres, an opening you know were going to open the openly. This is the money we have left were going to give the refunds where we can. That kind of response, which is the response i put to him in in in our original interview – would have had at least some kind of respect there from the backers um.

But the fact that the the the way that theyve treated the backers has just been utterly disgusting. Frankly, um one one of one of the theres theres, really two sections. I want to talk about next, which is going from production to prototype and the campaign itself being suspended, because, of course, this campaign on indiegogo, despite the fact that an updates just been posted a few minutes ago, is actually currently suspended by the very platform. Now the the the funds that were withheld by indiegogo for things like chargebacks and that type of thing was only about a a five or ten percent amount. They actually provided refunds to backers because they said okay, its. It is the end of the road for this. We havent seen anything any kind of demonstration of the product in actual fact publicly on the the campaign page. They confirm that they havent even heard from vernon for a while, so they are now going to be offering the refunds of the funds that they have. They started at backer one and went up like that. So very very early people got some refunds that way um, but we had the same situation where again hes being reminded that he has a contractual obligation publicly on a post on his own page by by the platform and hes refusing to do it. First of all, he said its because its in production, so we we put this group letter together, sent it to indiegogo and um.

Finally, it did get changed from production to prototype, despite the fact that theres lots of memes out there, which i know joey, has seen um of of vernon saying absolutely not. It cannot go from production to prototype, it will not happen and then i think, literally, the following day after that statement it was put into prototype, which again was one of the boundaries that vernon himself in the live interview with geeksvana actually stated is one of the Reasons he cant give open refunds because its in production and he wasnt he wasnt allowed to under the indiegogo uh terms, conditions hes, so bothered about the content conditions at that point because they protect him. But yet once its back to prototype and even suspended um hes hes, you know he forgets his contractual obligation and just it the fact that he keeps putting in the comments to anyone that asked for a refund. Please email info at or support at extreme flyers and well come back to you and of course he never does anybody that criticizes the product is a troll, in fact, just so that everybody knows here on twitter, vernon branded every single member and theres about 450 of Them now disgruntled backers who joined a group to try to get help getting a refund um help to take this guy to court. He branded all 450 of them as trolls, apparently so he he calls his customers trolls now any other business, any other professional ceo with any kind of ounce of respect for their customers, doesnt brand them and label them a troll when they have a problem with the Product now the sad reality here is: nobody has the product nobodys ever probably gon na get this product, because its been three years now and this guy doesnt want to try and help them, he just criticizes and attacks and calls them names.

That is the reaction that i would expect from a child not from a ceo indeed. Indeed, and and you look at they say as well in in the chat now hes just said. Please ask sean to stop censoring. Yes, we actually, we does. He want to. You. Have the link to join us? You are more than welcome to come on and, and you know we did email you with how to join. We emailed you with allowing you or a representative of michael jordan to come on. It was warned that anything that you put in the chat, which is misleading or anything you put in the chat which is spam, would be removed. The micro drone support account wasnt banned um. It was actually removed uh, basically, because you are making accusations against people on the panel and also youre, stating that the information being handed out regarding refunds is incorrect. Sadly, sir, it isnt. What were saying about refunds is 100 correct. You are now contractually obliged to um to actually uh provide refunds to all the backers um and to um yeah. It is something that is is in the contract that you have with indiegogo, let alone the contract that you have with your backers. Frankly, um and now hes doing a copy and paste. Yes, yes, which, as we have promised him you know, i want the backers to be able to have their say in the chat and thank you again for so many of you joining us this evening.

I really appreciate it um, but again vernon. You will not allow us to to just to to be diverted by spam, and this is what he does. He will. He will email myself and people like ash and and im sure others um, and he will hell start attacking you personally, because he wants to move the conversation away from the facts and away from the answers that he doesnt want to give across to oh youre. Not really a journalist or oh youre, this or youre that or you know, hes a bully. I had a. I had a 20 email response thing talking about the fact of whether or not my studio is actually in my mums basement, and it was. It was bizarre and then, in the end of it i thought what am i doing and i just stopped the conversation frankly because you know even if it wasnt my moms basement, who cares you know it doesnt doesnt answer the fact that you are um and, and There is no caveat to this. You are conning people, because you ask right now you are lying. You are lying to people on a daily basis. Somebody asks for it for a refund. On your comments, page, you tell them to email. You have no intention of providing that person a refund and you just say later and im sorry its just not good enough. Frankly, i mean i i have to say i i think that which is a whole other um rabbit hole to go down, but i do think we need to see more action from indiegogo.

I know theyve suspended the account, but theyre still allowing him to post updates. Theyre still allowing them to comment, etc, and so you know the problem. The problem there is that indiegogo are a platform that make money by allowing crowdfund campaigns to be hosted and backers to pledge their cash indiegogo dont care, whether the campaign delivers or not indiegogo only care by the about the fact that they make it effectively a commission From every single backers pledge, so indiegogo will never take action because, sadly, they they dont want to put themselves out of business. The majority of crowdfund campaigns fail, yes, thats, the sad reality. The other thing i would add to that as well is that, of course, if you imagine how difficult it is for a backer who is taking vernon to call which there has been dozens of them, how difficult it is to get answers and to get information and To get things in a timely manner, could you imagine that the the the the trouble that indiegogo have i mean theyve even themselves, said they dont hear from this guy um, so in terms of legal recourse, apart from taking legal action against them, which is against their Own, what on earth else could they possibly do? I suppose is part of that. I actually think the governments need to step in and regulate crowdfunding because effectively youre giving money away to people who can be an absolute fraudulent scammer. Yes – and i note i said people i didnt name a name, but the reality is, i could go and create a crowdfund campaign right now and say: im going to deliver this to you and i could make it sound great.

I could describe it as a cutting edge product with the greatest minds in the industry and its going to change your life and youll. You can retire and just play with this device all day, and i i can move away to you know somewhere in the middle of nowhere and take all your cash with me and indiegogo will just simply say. Well, you took a risk in crowdfunding its your fault. Thats it yes, there needs to be a benchmark, doesnt there, where, where okay, if a campaign, tries and fails, then fair enough that that money was risk, there was a risk to it. Theyve been honest, theyve told you, whats happened um, but actually, if there is a a a a campaign that is misleading and is, is actually ripping people off, there does need to be a benchmark there. Frankly, um joey joey. Sorry, please just to say sorry. The irony here is the extreme flyers rights. We highly disagree with ash im wondering which points of that they disagree with probably the location that they disappeared. Yes, probably yes, i, like the wii part as well personally, but there we go um joey. What? What is the current status of of of your backing? Have you managed to gain a refund yet yeah? I got a refund um about a year and a half ago now i want to say, i think, its january last year, excellent – and that was after probably about eight months of waiting for a court date where he was like buying waiting for the court date.

But here we are two years after that, and still nothing okay. So yours was one of the dozens of cases that was settled before it actually went to a hearing. Is that right, yeah about? I think it was two days before maybe a day before he suddenly got in contact with me saying that hes found he found someone to buy money. Oh thats right. I remember that now. Yes, yes, there was a trend for about a week where it wasnt refunds. It was resold, uh, perks, essentially wasnt it that was put forward is the reason. So, yes, i remember that now um absolutely extraordinary, as as someone who has actually backed the campaign and did so genuinely and obviously got it got excited about the product etc. What would you like to see happen now? What what do you think are the right steps that extreme flyers and vernon should be taking if they are responsible? I i think the the sort of appeal of a product like that vanished, and here we are three years later, the times more than gone. For a product like this and hes still trying to like put something out there. He could have released what he had at the time and then spent these three years on micro, drone five or something like that. But i i dont get why hes trying to yeah it is. It is a strange one, isnt it, because we we have seen a product flying.

We have seen videos of of of a product allegedly in existence, but um its its um it it. It never seems to just go beyond that point, its almost as if i dont know – and i dont know this – because obviously unfortunately, none of us ever get to see inside vernons world as it were. But i dont know whether there was an original set of of prototypes that worked, which are then being worked on here, or something and just being tweaked and its its those that we keep seeing with slight changes on them, etc. Its very strange because we we seem to get to a point of were almost about to um ship and it it just it just falls backwards, which, unfortunately, the fourth or fifth time that happens. You start to think you know is. Is it ever going to happen? Frankly, is it ever going to be be a real product? Um, which is, which is the reality, is even if it was a real product. I mean based on microdrone 3. It just wont be good and its. This drone this product now micro, drone 4, is so irrelevant already. In fact, it was irrelevant two years ago, the camera quality the flight time, the weight of it um the price of it. I mean its an absolute rip off. You know when you consider now that you can buy um a used original dji mini the original dji mix in a second hand, and its still a far more capable drone than micro drone could ever even imagine absolutely so.

You know the reality is um and the sad reality actually is that, even if this drone does eventually ship to people, they will not be satisfied with it. There were a few people happy with michael drone 3, but youll find that those people have never owned a drone before for them. Micro, drone 3 was cutting edge in the same respect that you know a flying potato would be cutting edge if youve never seen a potato. Yes, so you know its just not ever going to be an impressive product and its irrelevant already. So, to be honest, i would rather just see vernon give up and refund the money. Whatevers left of it divide all of that remaining fund between every single backer and just let them have a bit of peace and just give up with this pointless project, because it wont deliver anything viable and he can then save himself. A lot of stress legal cases – and you know yes exactly, i agree, and that would be the best one like the we. We funded this to fund the production of this drone as it was, but he spent that, like the past three years on, like sort of redesigning it um, is he saying that none of that money went towards this redesigning thats all his own money, because thats not What anyone submit this money for whos paying these costs to have all these thoughts, thats right reviews of the same design, absolutely note, or anything like that.

No indeed, because there is, there is no discussion. There is no discussion of weve got to this point. We could still build this or we could give you know, limited refunds back and and give the actual you know and as ive said to him at every step of this and ive had a lot of conversations with vernon an awful lot. I have skype conversation and messages that probably range into the thousands of individual dms and ive always said you just need to go to go to your audience. Go to your backers, you know they are active in this and you know talk to them and see what they want to happen, and instead we have the existing campaign. Page with you know, videos being made private regarding stretch goals, including norella, who of course are more than happy to distance themselves from the micro drone 4 campaign and have emailed several people to confirm that theyre not involved in an ongoing um situation. So anything that norella is there is literally the product theyve already delivered, im, not sure how hes going to get that working with a new style drone. But you know perhaps thats where the the worlds cutting edge the worlds best drone experts that he has working for him comes into it im, not sure um its going to be. Can i just say sean uh extreme flies in the chat says a lot of backers. Would not be happy with what ash just said were going to deliver an excellent product.

Well, do us a favor vernon, find a backer, a genuine backer and give us the give us their details so that we can chat to them and get them on stream and lets lets talk to them in person about why they think this product is still exciting And why they even think they might actually get it, because, quite honestly, id be id be shocked if this product ever delivers, and even if it does it, it wont, fly itll, probably burn up like the microdone threes that i had did, indeed, which, by the way, Just went straight in the b, yes exactly well, i did actually find one on facebook marketplace, um uh, unboxed um, and that is actually on its way to me so im looking forward to doing an unboxing of the micro drone 3.. It should be. It should be good fun, um, but yes and and thats part of it as well, even if they actually did now deliver on the product, even if they actually delivered the original products with you know, crikey to people who are new at this, who are new to This story: there are issues going back as far as sensors being downgraded without telling anybody – and you know a specification being changed on the website after you can no longer get a refund, and that type of there are so many issues going back. As far as you can, but even if they delivered that actual drone now with all of those bits and pieces – yes, it would be nice but its its useless.

Its completely irrelevant. I mean it. Doesnt have the functionality it doesnt have the use case, uh that someone like joey as a backer um um, wanted that product for frankly, its um, its its incredible uh johnnymac26, is saying: have a fire extinguisher ready? Yes, i will johnny, i have one, but we do. We do actually have one in each of the studios, so i will, i will make sure its its even closer uh when we unbox it im, not sure what a microzone three in a box for two years will do. But there we go vernon, vernon, wright, sean and ash, encourage people to send abusive message to partners to tell the truth now, partners working in in an organization dont care about emails, sent to them. If the working relationship is good. Firstly, thats thats an absolute lie and not yet another one from vernon saying that we sean and i have bothered to take the time to send abusive messages to partners. Weve never sent abusive messages, weve sent messages of inquiry to companies like recently yeah and who, fortunately have replied to us to tell us vernon that they intend never to work with you ever again, and i would like to say that as well, that actually narella have Been fantastic in terms of responding to both myself and journalistic inquiries, but they were also been very good at actually responding to individual backers. Uh, individual backers have actually messaged the ceo on on direct message and have actually had replies.

So you know hats off to that company and i i you know, i completely separate the two companies uh 100 because were able to do that because theyve told us whats going on frankly so were able to actually back it on something um real um. Can i ask you, can, can i suggest that we put um extreme flyers in timeout, because if vernon wants to cowardly, hide behind chat and hide behind fake facebook accounts as he does in the group, then he can do that, but i think he should be coming On this show and talking and actually being honest with his backers, exactly not not hiding behind fake accounts exactly and you know, with its not invited exactly exactly what i was about to say. You know we we do have an open link. Vernon is able to join us on just on audio um, audio and video. If he prefers or or a representative, we gave that that um information more than a week ago as well um. So the fact that its just the the spamming and the chat is is its just incredible now for anyone watching the replay they will still. The comments will still come back in the chat, so you can read what has been saying, but obviously theyre on a timeout at the moment, which i think its a very fitting, a very fitting name for it frankly, isnt it to call it a timeout. Now the next thing i wanted to do was actually look at the um, the the most recent comments that have been made and actually look at the the transition that weve experienced from about the point where the account was suspended and really moving through from there weve Started to see something different happen, um, and rather than it being vernon actually replying with um to these comments.

Well, allegedly it was, it was all allegedly, of course we have no idea who respond uh. It is now, of course, this lydia person that that is, that is now responding to to all of the um uh the comments, although its slightly confusing, because obviously in one of the interviews, vernon did confirm that lydia no longer worked for the company um and had Moved back to italy and was doing a little bit of remote customer service for them. So again, as ive said in previous shows this isnt somebody that sat in their their their offices in wimbledon with direct access to the product or anything else like that. This is somebody that lives overseas, basically so its it its its just its strange but ive. Unfortunately, ive seen this kind of thing on other failed campaigns where people havent come forward. More lets say, in my opinion, more more openly and honestly about whats going on where you do see, people to start to want to really remove their name from a campaign and the reference to their personal name um, and that to me is a concern. Basically, i i think its a bit of a concern that its starting to be a bit of a corporate sort of response, rather than vernons personal responses that we used to get but again, even within the last couple of days. In fact, i think the last one was only one day, um here basically saying where someone has said i i want.

I want my refund and again referring that person to the support act and make sure to make sure we have everything we need this way. Youre not sharing any private information publicly. Nobody who has emailed from this comment section who has emailed the support extreme fliers has gained a refund. This is a tactic which is used to basically silence people that are asking for a refund on the page and to bring them into an email list where he can just ignore them. And i know this because there are several complaints up and down where people have said: ive already emailed the list, ive already emailed, that account and weve heard nothing back, which is crazy, and this. This little update here from microdrone one day ago, project owner hi julian, were still working on making sure the core features work perfectly as we imagined them. We are expecting to start shipping out to backers in the next three months. Thank you lydia. So when they say, as we imagine them, i think thats, probably how theyre how theyre developing them as well in in their minds yeah, i mean thats thats, either really really badly worded or there is something very, very strange going on in the background there frankly, because To say that were still working on the core elements of this product, when, of course, in 2019, their campaign, video stated that we are now production ready and we just need. We just need 75 000 of your money to go to production and make this thing a reality.

We we have, the drone were ready, and this is why vernon doesnt, like the word fraud, but the reality is, if you, if you market something – and you say its ready for production and im quoting from the article here, i believe it was december. 2019 was yes ready for production, and the reality is vernon is still working on the design and the tooling. That means its not ready for production. That makes it a scam that makes it fraud if you state something thats a blatant lie, and you end up with almost a million or over a million dollars of backing based on that lie, then its a fraud, its a scam. He may not like the word, but sadly well, fortunately, were much more honest than he is and were not not afraid to say exactly what this project is. Yes, exactly i mean, and that is that is the problem here is, and it it feels frustrating in an industry where you know dji or someone wont bring out quite the right update or something and therell be something small and they will get slaughtered for it. They will get lots of complaints and they will respond. Theyll respond on social media, theyll, theyll direct message, individual owners and they will stand to account for whats happened in the main. But unfortunately, we dont have that situation here with with the micro drone 4.0 campaign and i wouldnt care. If this was just a product that was promised and just just didnt happen and went away, thats fine, it happens, it happens in the drone industry all the time.

But you you look at other examples like the zero zero hover 2, which was a crowdfunded um drone and was unfortunately ill fated and vernon has put to me. Why dont you talk about that campaign. Why dont you talk about the other drone campaigns that have failed and the reason i have no reason to talk about that campaign. Is someone says id like a refund and then they get a response. Your refund has been processed exactly you know, and then and the other. The other joyful thing there, of course is, then that company is only working with the backers that want to be part of the campaign, which, i think is is probably even healthier for them. Frankly, yeah, i honestly think that most of the backers would be would have higher chance of winning the squid games than they would of actually getting a drone out of do you uh, i feel i feel like i feel like actually emailing an email conversation with vernon. Should be part of the squig games that actually should be one of the challenges and just to see, if you just want to you know, take a long, walk off a short pier afterwards. Frankly, because it was this is why i needed carlsberg for this live. I needed i needed beer because talking about vernon riles me because you know ive dealt with this guy for many many years and ive dealt with many manufacturers. You know built up great relationships with drone manufacturers, who would send me their drones to get not just a review on youtube but prior to that to actually give them feedback so dji when they brought out the original pocket.

They sent it to me for feedback not for a review, but to actually give them feedback on using it. So ive got great relationships with vendors, and vernon is the only one that that unfortunately never listens, never acts on anything um. I gave him feedback when he released his carbon racing drone frame, which was an interesting idea to be fair, but the promotional video for it had footage from a dji stabilized drone pretending to be a racing drone, and i called him up on it. And i said this is a scam you cant cannot put that out, take that clip out now and he did fortunately, but that just shows you know in exactly the same way as when he launched this drone. He launched it with a split screen: video showing footage from a 2 000 pound inspire 2 and the 100 pound um non existent micro, drone 4. Saying that you know, look look how good this drone is and the reality is he down scaled? The footage from the inspire 2 to make it look pixelated. Yes, he cropped and scanned that footage in and thats just again another sketch exactly thats cool just very quickly joseph. Thank you very much for the five pound super chat. I really appreciate it really enjoying the channel its a shame, because a few bad projects could make future entrepreneurs think twice about the using the crowdfunding model and thats, where i think ashs point about the government stepping in regulators.

Stepping in from the point of view of regulating this better, because if, if its used correctly its really its a really effective tool for someone who doesnt have the the only thing they lack is the finance. There are so many incredibly clever people out there. And you know they have some wonderful product ideas. They work up a prototype, theyre ready. They dont want to go on dragons den or they they cant get on dragons. Then then, actually crowdfunding should work for them and unfortunately it it just doesnt its its its. Absolutely incredible: theres an irony there that vernon was on dragonstone and they chose not to back him. He rebranded some cheap crappy products from china, yeah saying that he could resell and in actual fact, i believe one of the one of the dragons actually knew the person that had the patent for the product that he was trying to sell to them. Basically, and that was where it sort of fell apart a little bit, unfortunately, im talking of patents. This is the guy that promotes the that he has two patents to his name. But if you look up those patents, they were never granted, they were withdrawn, were obviously talking about vernon a lot and thats because he is the the campaign owner and he is the man behind extreme flyers, etc, and everything else like that and you might think if Youre watching this, this stream either live or as a replay, you might think.

Okay lets lay off this guy a little bit now. Shall we – and you know, lets lets, lets not lay it on too thick go back through my videos. Go back through my channel. Go back through ashs channel. You will not find videos where we go after people. We are not. We are not. Those kind of channels were not people. That sort of you know i dont have lots of which gotcha or yeah exactly or witch hunt videos on my channel where im. Oh, this guy, is a con man or anything else like that. The reason that weve picked this story up and the reason that were following it through to the point where ash isnt currently active on youtube but wanted to come on and and share in. This message is because of how much vernon has misled people and how many times hes lied to them and it and it continues, and it frustrates us because we feel protective over the drone hobby, the community, that that we produce content for – and you know it just Isnt, a good situation for people to be in frankly, i agree. Thank you. Thank you, andy cortes, for your 10 pound super chat. I really appreciate it heres my crowdfunding tenor to launch the geeksvana drone 1.0 yeah. No, i tell you what i am. I am as someone that once in my very early days of youtube, i once messaged ash to ask him about iso and shutter speed and frame rate and all that type of thing, because i didnt really understand it all.

So as as someone that yeah im, not that im, certainly not the person that will be launching a drone, perhaps i should, as ash said earlier, um and thank you as well pravel for your um, your check, 49 uh super chat as well. I really appreciate it. Thank you guys, but you know please do you know especially backers. Please do keep your money as youve already been. You already had to pay out once already and just a couple of messages from people um who, who are backers: 619 ota december 2018 production ready june 2019 guaranteed delivery. We all remember that email guaranteeing the delivery june 2022. Here we are nothing not even a working prototype and thats the thing, despite claims of you, know, covet issues and, of course, theres just been a huge lockdown in in china, affecting the huge with a very big impact on the technology sector, but that doesnt stop you From getting a working prototype, frankly, it doesnt stop you from having a work. Working prototype by now, uh to still be using coved is, is just a bizarre, a bizarre situation, basically yeah lame exactly. I didnt hear that it took a it took a moment for the word lame to to process in my brain um. So where do you think, with your experience, ash and obviously youve been youve, been doing this longer than me when and and youve got the website? The the droning on dot co website, etcetera, which always used to have excellent articles and youve, had more of an interaction with with parts of the industry than i have.

Where do you think this ends? How long do you think that we can go on with this? This sort of piecemeal situation, where were just giving comment, updates email us for a refund and heres heres, a bs update. Frankly how? How long can this continue so with microdrone 3, the big value add that most backers were really excited about. Was the gimbal mechanical gimbal, the drone shipped to people? Some people never got it, but those that did get it. It flew for a short time in some respects. Before the the moffett popped and burnt um. They then he then released this. What he called innovative snap on magnetic camera and the problem is, when you snapped that camera onto the bottom of micro drone three, the thing was so heavy: it literally flew like a flying potato um. You know you. If youre in trouble you you didnt, have any throttle it just dive bombed. So then this gimbal, which didnt ship to virtually anybody from what i can see and if it did ship to them it was useless. It was geared and it you know it just had. No smooth quality to it at all. It was pointless and it was one axis, so it literally was pointless and then the campaign just smolded away like a like a bbq, just cooling down overnight and then its gone, and i i dont know how this can really conclude other than in the same way.

I think at some point he will release a minimal, viable product minimum via mvp to people um and hope that they are happy with what theyve got, but it wont be anywhere near as its been described in the campaign. It will just be something to ship out there so that he can formally close the campaign thats. How i believe. Yes, this will end, and i then hope that vernon and this company disappear. Um are never allowed to crowdfund ever again and never ever allowed to try and sell anything to the general public. I hope they disappear and we never ever see any sniff of a microdrone fight. Oh please, dont, well that that gives me a i could. I could see joeys uh eyes starting to blink, then when he said micro drone five, i dont think any of us would really want to see that coming around the corner, no um. Thank you very much. Uh metro jones for the 20 super chat happy wednesday. Dronas sean yo. Thank you, sir. Its great to see you and its great to see a lot of our regulars in here as well, and the geeksman audience have supported the backers um by by watching these streams and videos and, and you know its good to see the drone community rally round. Um and support everybody. Frankly i mean we. We need to see this situation end soon and i actually personally, i wonder whether theres actually going to be a situation where we wont see a product, um and thats thats, really where i think we may see this sort of bumble along for another good.

Six to nine months, at least before something can actually happen, but uh i see, i see ash smiling. I think i know why hes smiling well, just in the chat. Sorry, i just see theres a photography guy there, who said i received the mb md3 camera and gimbal flying potatoes, putting it nicely yeah exactly i mean im being polite when i say yes flying potato but also daniel, says, ask the bbc for a special investigation story About fraud on crowdfunding – well, ironically, i pinged uh rory kellen jones, kathleen jones, who is one of who is, was the biggest technology correspondent on the bbc until he unfortunately retired in the last few months. Brilliant chap had lots of conversations with him um about zano. Originally he covered zano and then um. When i mentioned that there is something similar to zano, can you take a look, and he entirely on his own, coming to his own conclusions, based on everything he could see also concluded that this campaign is in fact, what was the name of the article? Sorry, sean oops, sorry, i was just popping the link to it in the chat. Actually, let me go back up. Thats right mike losing attitude. Great title, ironically, is exactly what md3 did, but he also came to the conclusion that the the drone is flawed and the video quality is terrible. Um vernon will claim that we influenced him. Will anybody that knows rory helen jones will know that you cannot influence a bbc technical, well respected, um journalist this guys, the best in his field.

He is too far up that tree. To think that you can. Realistically you know it it. It would be like walking into you, know a ferrari dealership and offering a a 10 pound bribe or something you know these. These guys are are the elite of what they do. Theyre at the very top of the tree and theyd have no reason to frankly, because he has enough articles. He has enough stories going on. He wouldnt need to be influenced frankly, um yeah it is. It is crazy, but yes, its interesting. Somebody brings up the bbc that was one of um um ashs uh um, but part of his hard work, because, as well as the videos you see on on channels, etc, um ash has worked very hard behind the scenes to get the kind of um exposure. This story needed at that point as well and and frankly, when you think that that was the third of march 2020, and it was such a damning report, its its incredible that were now two more than two years later sitting here, still discussing it and showing it As an example of of good journalism, frankly related to this vernon will ask vernon will ask why sean and i dont just let this drop um havent. We got better things to do well. Yeah weve got much better things to do if vernon actually gave his backers. What they prompt, what he promised we wouldnt have to constantly be trying to hold him to account to get these backers their money back and on zano another scammy campaign.

Um. You know a lot of backers ended up getting a refund and thats exactly what shawn and i want to achieve here. This drone will be useless yeah if it arrives. I would prefer everybody to be getting a refund and, like i said, a message to vernon give up divide, whatever funds are left behind between every single backer, even if its 10 pounds just give them something back. Save yourself a lot of court time and stress and frustration exactly follow the contract that you signed with indiegogo, and you know, with the with the ins, the insistence that they have put on your own campaign, page basically stating that all backers should now be uh getting Their refunds from you, the campaign owner so its its time. Frankly, it is time yeah. I think as well like what you were saying there ash about what whyd you continue to do this they wouldnt have got an update tonight if the show wasnt going out exactly. I think the most amount of information ive seen through vernon from the past three years, has been through seans channel just from his interviews with him and sort of sort of yeah. You know squeezing the information out of it. Its strange when i, when i published those um those the two interviews that we did with vernon, i was shocked with the amount of backers. That said, actually thank you because have weve never had that information yet and these these are.

They were great interviews in terms of court when people take uh vernon to court. Those interviews are priceless evidence. Yes, i agree with that really good job um. Thank you. Yeah! No, i i really do agree with that and again vernon im more than welcome to do a follow up whenever, whenever, whenever you or a representative uh legal representative, anybody at all wants to come and talk to us. We are here and ready to hear and put out your side of the story um under questioning, of course, which would be very just to say somebody in the chats put brushed motors in 2022, exactly brushed motors, but but even more ridiculous, no gps chip. This thing has no gps: it uses optical image, recognition to try and stabilize it which dji drones have, but as an emergency for when it when it loses gps signal or if youre, flying inside um. You know this thing: doesnt have a gps chip, so the reality of that – and i think you know when i first read about this campaign – i put out an article saying what this drone will not be able to do and one of them it. You know people were saying i cant wait to fly this at night. It wont fly at night, it wont hover, it wont hold its position because if its dark, the camera cant see the ground, so it wont hold, it will just drift away. Yes, a camera.

A drone in 2022 without a gps, is literally like an electric car with no wheels. I agree exactly and i i would also just like to um to state that the the accounts, the various accounts that theyve been using this evening as in vernon and and or the microdrone uh company, they are still active in the chat they are able to to Post things, interestingly, when we have insisted on deleting anything that we know to be completely incorrect, um and you know, offer him the opportunity to come on as well. It is now seems like, for the first time ever were getting silence, which it seems. The only way that you can actually silence. Vernon is actually hold into account, so thats uh, perhaps no great surprise there. Frankly, excellent, okay, well thats, basically were coming up on the hour. I dont want to go on too long with this. This particular topic, as i say, were here to refocus people on the fact that the campaign is still going on nine months after suspension. They are still within the 24 hours of this stream being live within 24 hours of this show they have stated that the product will be out in three months. They have promised people refunds if they send an email to the support at email address its absolutely crazy. That were still in this situation, and you know anybody any of the backers share this video out there um, you know, lets counter the misinformation, the propaganda that vernon is putting out that the campaign is in any other kind of state, apart from defunct right now, yeah Excellent well, thank you very much for joining us ash.

I hope that this might give you the bug and that we we might see a few more notifications dropping from from droning on soon. You never know. You know what the i the funny irony is a couple of years ago, in fact yeah two two years ago or so um. It was seeing this campaign falling apart. That brought me back. I had a six month break from producing content and i came back to produce a video about vernon and people taking him to court um, but yeah.