Kyle Rittenhouse trial continues in Kenosha
I want to put two things quickly on the record drama number one. On friday, the parties received a high definition copy of a video drone footage that we all previously had lower resolution copies of its from a source uh identified as brandon beeman or urban unaired urban earth. Something like that and i believe, theres an agreement that thats going to be added to our stipulated list of authentic videos, so that we wont need a witness to lay a foundation of authenticity as to that that correct is a correct statement. Okay and second of all, youre honored, the next witness is going to be gage gross croix. I believe theres an agreement among the parties that he has one prior criminal conviction all right, accurate all right lets uh, oh yeah. I suppose i should do that. Um its monday, starting without the reporter, is a common problem. Would you come down, please yes, uh as a common problem, but i dont think i ever started without the jury. Please, i think, its true all right good morning, everyone, i hope everybody had a restful and uh entertaining weekend and uh. I hope that uh bears play tonight right. Okay, so oh youre smiling a lot. I assume that youre a bear fan how many, how many packers fans, how many bear fans about a typical split for kenosha, okay, great well, uh everybody enjoy the game, not necessarily the outcome. Um all right lets go. The state calls gauge growth courts.
You may be seated, could you please state your name and spell your first and last name for the record gage g, a i g e girls, crates g r, o s s k r e? U t z, have you ever been convicted of a crime? Yes, how many times one? What city do you currently live in milwaukee and uh? Did you grow up in milwaukee for the most part? Yes, did you have any experiences growing up that made you want to get into the medical field? Many, i think, i remember being a young child. My grandma was employed as a registered nurse at columbia, st marys milwaukee um, like i said, being a small child. I remember her teaching me how to use a stethoscope and a blood pressure. Cuff id say that was probably my earliest memory. When i decided that i wanted to pursue a career in medicine, where did you go to high school west dallas central? When did you graduate 2012. and did you find opportunities to put that early desire to go into medicine into practice? Oh yes, tell us about that. Um. I remember when i was a sophomore in high school and i was on the swim team and my swim. Captain had come up to me and asked if i wanted a job as a lifeguard. So from there i worked for the milwaukee lifeguard corps and then from there i went to school to be an emt basic after completing.
That course. I then worked as a emt on a private ambulance in milwaukee. Can you tell us a little bit about what you had to do to complete that course, so emt basic is, i believe, 160, maybe 180 hours. Essentially that comes to a couple days a week. Out of a out of a semester and then, following that, after successful completion of the coursework at the college, you then take two nationally uh registered courses or tests. I should say one is a cycle motor course, so thats a psychomotor course test exam and thats. Essentially, the hands on technical skills and then theres a cognitive exam, and it is a computerized exam where you take multiple choice. Questions in various fields of pre emergency hospital care was those two classes that you described were those necessary to finish up the emt basic program. Correct and was there anything else you needed to do to finish up that program um apart from submitting an application to be licensed through the state thats? Essentially it are you familiar with the requirements in order to become an emt in wisconsin? I am what are those requirements um so just to recap finishing some sort of college coursework, whether its an emt basic or, if you go on for an advanced emt or an emt paramedic. So the course their coursework through the accredited college, is the first thing and then following that is the uh, like i said, the two national registry of emt or emergency medical technicians exams that you take once you complete those and pass them.
Then you submit an application to whatever jurisdiction that youll be working in, because while you might learn you know this much youre only able to potentially do this much given local protocols and laws. Did you complete? All of that yourself, i did. Did you obtain a certification from the state of wisconsin to be an emt? I did and did you put that into practice? I did how so um. Like i mentioned before, i worked for a private ambulance in milwaukee for a number of years. Did you continue on in the field uh to get more advanced training or more advanced certification? After that, i did. Can you tell us about that? Yeah um. So when i was working as an emt basic, i decided that i really enjoyed it and i wanted to advance my knowledge, my expertise. My experiences and i went back to school to waukesha county technical college, and this is where i took the emt paramedic course. Can you tell us about that course yeah? Yes, the emt paramedic course. I guess a a quantitative way to differentiate the two emt basic is about 180 hours of class time. An ent paramedic is about 1600, so for the specific course that i took at waukesha county technical college, i took 34 credits in a semester. The way that this course was structured is, you would take a morning class a morning class and an afternoon class. This would go on for the entire semester.
These classes would be, for example, one of the first two courses that i took was one course specific and treating trauma, and then medical emergencies so theres a difference between those two so morning class afternoon class and at the end of two weeks, and this kind of Condensed really fast, paced really hard, hitting course, courses you and then take the exam for those and then, as long as you passed with a b or higher, you were then essentially able to move on to the next segment. So if, at any point in this program, you were to fail a course, so you failed your morning class halfway through, but you passed your afternoon class. You would have to wait for the next uh academic semester to to um to go back to re attack. Were you able to make it through that entire program? I was: is that true for everybody else in your class? It is not what was the kind of the drop out rate if you will um from what i remember we had about 25 to 30 students. I was one of maybe 10 that passed once you finished. All of that course work. Did you get any new license or certification i did and what was that called uh? That is the emt paramedic certification. Is that from the state of wisconsin? That is. Do you remember approximately when you obtained that that would have been um 2014? I want to say, can you help us understand the difference between an emt and a paramedic uh? Yes, i can um the like.
I said a quantitative way to delineate the two is the amount of course work um, a simpler way that i like to put it to people is paramedics can put new holes in people so some of the sorry would you like to go ahead. Some of the things, for example, are administering iv medications so knowing how to start an iv, also cardio synthetic sorry cardiocentesis, which is essentially a life saving maneuver, which involves extracting fluid from the heart theres, also a great deal of pharmacology knowledge that needs to be known For example, emts emt basics can administer six different kinds of medications. Paramedics and again, it depends on the jurisdiction that youre working in, but nationally youre taught a little over 50 different kinds of medications and thats, not just names but its indications, contraindications or when to use it when to not use it dosages, which can be dependent on Weight age and then theres also just the general knowledge thats known. So while there are a lot more technical skills that you learn in pharmacology and things like that, its also being able to identify and properly assess after you obtained your certification as a paramedic. Did you work in that field? I did. Can you tell us about that? Um, like i said, i have been previously employed on a private ambulance as an emt basic and then continued to work um on a private ambulance as an emt paramedic. Did you ever do any of that work here in kenosha in kenosha no been in racine? I worked for erickson ambulance for a time during your time, working as a paramedic with that private ambulance company.
What sort of medical emergencies did you have to respond to um? So erics erickson ambulance does um primarily um. Well, i think almost exclusively whats called inter facility transports um, so its not like when somebody calls 9 1 1 erickson ambulance is the one to respond. Um versus like in milwaukee theres a essentially these. These calls are shared with the fire department and private ambulances, so the private ambulances kind of back up the firefighters um, but specifically for erickson ambulance and racine. When i worked as an emt paramedic, our general patient population were elderly people, so this was, i mean, a range, a range of emergencies anywhere from diabetic issues to potentially mental health issues. Theres, always the chance and or the chance of trauma say somebody falls. Cardiac issues are also a big well, a more, i guess, ubiquitous thing with with the geriatric sorry. Cardiovascular emergencies are a lot more common. Given the age of geriatric patients. Do you remember approximately how long you worked as a paramedic Music lets say about a year? Were there ever times in which you had to deal with someone suffering from a gunshot wound? Yes, i have. What was that, like its difficult um gunshots can be very traumatic enemy, traumatic in the sense of the physiology of what it can do to the body. Obviously there are, you know, numerous factors that go into it: the size of the caliber, where the persons shot, how many times um and when you are practicing in school.
It is much different from when you actually go and put your hands on. Somebody who is is bleeding theres lots of blood screaming, generally speaking, theres somebody there thats frantic. So then, not only are you having to focus on the patient, but you have to deal with the surrounding situation, which can be potentially, like. I said a frantic family member say if its an accident or self inflicted, but also it can be a dangerous situation to go into because, generally speaking, i mean you shoot people to hurt them and theres always that potential of continued on scene violence. So it can be very hectic um, it definitely doesnt get easier. The more you do it, maybe going through the motions you know going through your mental checklist of things that you need to need to do, but it definitely doesnt get easier watching that hearing that, since you obtained your paramedic certification from the state of wisconsin, have you Continued your education in that field i have, can you tell us about that? Um i went to school to for outdoor education and naturally, through that field. You are finding yourself in remote areas where there is going to be some form of delayed care, meaning meaning that you arent able to get to a hospital within an hour and thats commonly referred to as the golden hour, specifically with trauma patients. I then took a wildland firefighter course, which i did complete and then i also took whats called wilderness first responder, which is the pretty um its essentially the industry standard for people who work in the outdoor industry.
Have you worked in the outdoor industry? As you say, i have what kind of work have you done. My first job uh in the ontario industry, was working as a sea kayak guide in the apostle islands. Um a sea kayak guide in the apostle islands. Is that right, correct, okay, go ahead, um and then from there um, naturally, through schooling and opportunities, i primarily worked with children middle school age and also from there i was a um. I am an american canoe association sea, kayaking instructor to actually teach people how to effectively see kayak. A bit of context, specifically for where i worked in the apostle islands, like superiors very cold, can get very windy, which means very wavy, so its maybe just a little bit more intense than maybe paddling around your lake cabin. Are you continuing your studies today? I am, and how close are you to finishing those up? I have one more class that i need to complete to receive my bachelors on outdoor education. I want to turn your attention, mr gross croits to the the summer of the year 2020 and were gon na lead up to august 25th. But before that um did you spend time that summer uh attending any protest or demonstrations? I did. Can you tell us about that after the death of george floyd, i found myself demonstrating in milwaukee. This was, i want to say, maybe two days after george floyds death and i was out with a friend of mine who actually took emt basic with and we were out demonstrating.
We were seeing what the scene was like im, sorry seeing what the scene was like. Um we didnt make signs or anything like that, but we like i said we found ourselves down in milwaukee um and when you say you were demonstrating, what exactly were you doing? Well, i think what i was specifically doing was just being in attendance, but i want to make sure we understand what you mean by demonstrating um. Were there people damaging property, no lighting fires, no uh was there any violent clash with police? No, what time of day, if you recall, were these uh demonstrations um that specific first one generally late morning into late afternoon. So what would other folks be doing at these demonstrations? People would be holding signs. They would be chanting various things, um driving cars down down the street yeah, and you said you initially were there just kind of to see the scene? Is that right, yeah, correct and and tell us what happened after that? So after walking for a few hours, um kind of starting to wrap the day up and all of a sudden somebody starts yelling, medic, medic, um and im walking. Like i said with my friend who i took emt basic with and he looks at me and he says that thats you i was like: oh, i guess youre right um and then i came over to a patient who had tripping fallen over a curb. My guess is they just werent paying attention got their got their feet caught up and the patient was was all right after an assessment advised to go to the hospital following that, though, i notice that there was no established or even organized sort of first aid presence At these demonstrations and from there i was talking with my friend, who i take an emt basic with, and we decided that we were going to offer our services voluntarily and did you do that? We did tell us about that experience.
So i had uh talked to some of the prominent organizers uh in milwaukee, and we kind of laid out a game plan, or you know how we were going to organize this um. Essentially, as medics, we decided that we werent going to be actively participating in any of the demonstrations. I think theres a essentially an ethic code that if you are providing medical care, you shouldnt necessarily choose a side, because everybody has the right to protest or demonstrate assemble freedom of speech, but also everybody has the right to do that safely. So, very early on, we decided that we werent going to actively participate in these demonstrations from there. My friend and i outfitted his uh pickup truck into a essentially a mobile first aid station in the time period that followed after that. Did you and your friend with this mobile first aid station, provide medical assistance at these demonstrations? Yes, we did on approximately how many occasions would you say you did that i think its relevant for many reasons, um its establishing his background as a paramedic uh, which was coming, came into play on this particular evening. I think it also is uh drawing a contrast between him and the defendant. Uh ill overrule the objection on the first problem, how many approximately? How many times would you say you were out there providing medical care at these demonstrations? I would say about 75 days prior to august and during that time period, what sort of medical situations would you assist in? Primarily it was essentially people not taking care of themselves.
I mean it was a hot summer: people, werent hydrating people, werent eating people, werent wearing proper footwear. So i would say it was by and large, very nothing sort of like medical emergencies. It was very, you know, like i said people not taking care of themselves. So, like its providing water, providing food, potentially bandaging spraying joints like ankles things like that, you mentioned earlier, that you felt sort of an ethical obligation not to pick and choose your the people. You would treat you treat anyone who needed it, no matter what their political beliefs were or what side they were on. Yes, absolutely. I want to move to the night of august 25th. 2020. on that particular evening. Did you come here to kenosha? I didnt? Had you been working at your normal job that day, i was, do you recall approximately what time you left to come down to kenosha 7pm? Did you travel alone? I did. Were you part of any sort of larger group or organization that was coming to kenosha? That night, i was not. Why did you personally decide to come down here that night, essentially for the same reasons that i stated earlier, um were all aware of what was happening in the days following jacob lake. Shooting people do have a right to demonstrate and no way advocating for property damage or anything like that. But, given the i think we all can agree chaotic of those three days following jacob lake shooting.
There was certainly a propensity for violence, or maybe not just violence but injuries in general, um and so for the same reasons that i stated earlier, i ive delivered patience to freighter down here, im familiar with the area, and i felt that, given my level of experience And knowledge that i could be of assistance to people when you came down here that night did you bring any of your own medical supplies? I did what kind of supplies did you bring with you? Um brought a tourniquet whats called hemostatic gauze, also commonly called quick clot. Chest wound seals. Some gloves some saline spray. How were you dressed that evening? I had a black shirt with a wu tang sign on its a pretty famous group um i had khaki shorts. I had tennis shoes and also i had a blue hat um with large lettering. That said, paramedic on the uh, i guess on the front of it. Were you carrying any of your equipment with you? I was how were you doing that i had it in um, a small backpack. Were you armed? I was tell us about that. I believe in the second amendment and im for peoples right to to carry and bear arms, and that night was no different than any other day its keys phone wallet gun. Did you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon? I did was it in effect. On august 25th 2020, it was not had it expired, it had and you had not renewed it.
I had not when you were having this medical truck in milwaukee. Did you carry a gun? Then i did when you came down here. How did you carry your gun? I had my handgun holstered in the small of my back. What type of gun was it? It was a gen 4 clock 27. So it is a smaller framed 40 caliber handgun. Was it loaded? It was. Do you recall if there was a round in the chamber that night, i dont when you came down here to kenosha that night, with your equipment etc? Did you specifically seek to meet out with any particular person or any group or anything along those lines? No, i did not so tell us what you did when you first came down here. So after i arrived in kenosha, i parked several blocks away. This is both for safety and protection of my property. I put on my equipment, which is essentially my handgun and my medical supplies, and then i walked towards the courthouse from there. Things were already. There was already confrontation between demonstrators and the police um and by confrontation i mean people were throwing water bottles. The police were uh, shooting pepper balls from the top of the courthouse that you know that sort of thing and then after i arrived, i assessed the scene and almost immediately i came upon a person who had been somehow whether it was direct spray or you know In a gas formation or form who was affected by the pepper spray, so immediately, following that, i started treating this person and then again from there.
I i was assessing the situation primarily treating people who were affected by the tear gas, also delegating to other people how to effectively treat that when you say you were delegating, were these people that you knew that you were delegating responsibility to. No so tell us about the delegating process, one instance that i can think of in particular, um the proper way to treat well just to irrigate an eye in general. Regardless of what is what is causing, you know, an issue, is you want to start from the nose and then pour out the idea behind? That is that you know if you have something thats affecting this eye. You pour it this way, then that chemical or whatever it is irritant, can then go into the unaffected eye or unaffected eye. So i had um come across a person who was not properly irrigating. The eye, and so that would have been one of the forms of delegation just telling this person hey. You know this is the proper way to do it. You know whether or not they chose to listen to me. Thats thats their choice but again just trying to provide some some proper knowledge and treatment. Do you recall approximately how many people you gave medical assistance to that night? I dont know the exact number, but if you wanted me to estimate id say around 10. uh, what was the most serious situation that you dealt with apart from myself? Yes, as a medic, treating the other folks that were out there um, there was an individual, a younger patient who had been shot in the crease of her left arm with what we presume to be a rubber bullet fired from one of the police, and she had Sustained a pretty pretty decent laceration, i mean there was pretty good cut from it, so whatever had hit her had some force behind it.
So, while actually treating a patient with tear gas irritant and then started to hear this young patient scream and that immediately got my attention um and would would you like me to explain that interaction? You know what lets pause there for a second. I want to show the jury something um 55.. So so mr grosskroitz im going to play an excerpt of exhibit number 55 and i would like you to when were done ill. Ask you a couple questions about it. Okay, go ahead. Mr grossman pause the video there for a second. Do you see yourself in that video? I do. Can you help us uh identify yourself there uh, i would be. You can see the top of my head with the blue baseball cap and some white lettering and a black shirt. That is me. Okay, go ahead? Applause! Music. Can you tell us what was shown in that video uh? This is me uh. Several several other individuals who i did not know the patient laying on the ground and what i later found out after i had treated the patient, their father and was this the individual you mentioned, who had a laceration to their elbow from a rubber bullet. That is correct. Do you remember where physically you were when you were providing that treatment um? This would have been the just across the street of the south Music east corner of civic park. Okay, so, basically right out across the square here correct – and this was on the night of august 25th correct – can we go, show exhibit 56, please.
So, mr grosskritz, do you recognize whats up on the screen? There is exhibit number 56 i do. Can you identify that? For us, please um: it appears to be a news article from the kenosha news depicting myself and the patient and the still of the video that we just previously watched your honor. I would move exhibits 55 and 56 into evidence. Objection, while you were out there on the night of august 25th, were you also taking your own video recording of what was going on? I was: can you tell us about that? Please i cant um so essentially when there wasnt a medical emergency or somebody seeking assistance. I am a aclu legal observer and i decided that the next best thing that i could do that night um was just simply record. Was this something where you were just recording it onto your own equipment or was it being shared in any way it was being recorded for my cell phone, but it was through a facebook live stream? Were you broadcasting live on facebook, while you were doing that, i was, and so that video would have recorded most of the things that you saw and places that you went uh while you were here that evening. Is that fair to say that its hard to say did there come a time in which you encountered a group of folks that were armed in front of the 59th street car source location? I did.
Can you tell us about that after the police had moved the demonstrators from the park, they started to form a line which they would then advance moving the demonstrators south down sheridan road, so, i would say, maybe 10 15 minutes after they they started clearing the park Out and found myself outside of the 59th street car source, as i walked up one of the first things. I noticed that there were people armed with long guns ar 15 type weapons similar to the defendants and they had been on the roof. I recall like three of them, i think, and there were also individuals on the ground, similarly dressed. Similarly armed on the ground, i recalled for seeing initially um. Do you remember the first time that you observed the defendant that evening i do? Can you tell us about that? There was an individual who i had assumed came from the demonstration reason. I assume that is because this person was coming from north traveling southbound um. This individual is being supported, uh by two other individuals kind of like that uh. If you were to hurt your leg and you needed somebody to help you um, i had observed this individual um come closer to the car source, as the defendant had been essentially offering medical aid, and then that was the the first time that i saw the defendant. Do you know what happened with regard to that person who was being supported by other people and the defendants? I only know what its seen in the moment.
I dont know what happened to this person afterwards, but what i observed was the defendant, offering medical assistance and then this individual being carried in a way onto the car source property. I then heard somebody yell dont. Let them treat you and i turned around. I dont remember why exactly i turned around, but then moments later i then turned back facing towards the car source and towards the defendant towards that individual and that individual, along with the other two people supporting them or exiting the property, did you see the defendant, provide Any treatment to that individual – i did not. Do you remember a time when you were at that location, that car source location and you you observed a dumpster out in the middle of the road? I do recall that, yes, what do you remember about that um? I didnt see how it got there, but it was your pretty typical municipal dumpster. You know green with the the black top um. I didnt see anybody actively pushing it like. I said i didnt even see how it got there, but it was probably about a dumpsters length from the the the curb uh which would be in front of car source. Did you see anyone trying to start it on fire? I did not. Can we please uh bring up the live stream, exhibit number 57 at the 55 44 mark. Please not the streets, protect your property, not the streets of property, not the streets.
Your! What we just observed, mr grosskrites, is that part of the live stream that you recorded that evening. That is, and i noticed there seems to be a little bit of a lag in the in the audio to the video. Is that fair to say that its fair to say, okay, but is that a true and correct copy of what you recorded that night, apart from the one or two second delay? It is so this incident here with the dumpster and whatnot. Were you physically there right there a few feet away when all this was going on? It was, and did you observe the people that were around you at that time? I did on that particular evening and again im going to ask you to try and go back and put yourself in the mindset of that night when youre out there on the streets. That evening. Had you ever heard of anyone by the name of joseph rosenbaum. No had you ever met that person before never do you recall seeing joseph rosenbaum at any point that evening i do not in particular right around the time of this dumpster fire um in front of 59th street car source. Do you recall seeing him around that? At any point, i do not, do you recall hearing anyone make any threats to any of the people at the car source location that if i get you alone im going to kill you or anything along those lines? I do not do you recall hearing anyone make any threats to any of those people at that car source location? I do not.
You mentioned that. The first time you saw the defendant was this person that was limping being supported by other people. Um – and i know you mentioned that eventually you saw that person walking away. Do you remember any other observations that you made of the defendant when you were at the 59th street car source uh? I do. Can you tell us about that? Um i took note like i said there were four people essentially in front of me that i could see so i took note of what they were wearing, how they were armed like i said they were all similarly armed with a similar weapon from the defendant used. Some of them, especially as you can see in the video, had body armor chest rigs, and then i i noted that the defendant was wearing a baseball cap, green shirt, jeans and then also a rifle at that moment in time, did you have any idea who he Was no never met him before never were there times in which you saw him wearing gloves on his hands. I did when was that um? I recall this being right around this time. Then i noticed the defendant, also wearing blue latex, gloves or maybe dark purple latex gloves that are pretty. I mean very common in a healthcare setting. Did that strike you as unusual in the moment? No, it did not. Do you wear gloves like that when you treat people, i do tell us about the process of putting them on and taking them off, um yeah, so the these gloves are common throughout all healthcare systems, theyre nitrile or they can be latex or non latex.
These gloves are designed to essentially stop anything wet that you dont want on your hands, so like blood or any sort of bodily fluids. The idea is its called body substance isolation. So, despite it being a very thin piece of plastic, its very good at keeping contagions off your hands. So the idea is, and also keeping in mind too, that you want to have your hands clean when youre also touching somebody else, especially if theres any sort of open wound you want to minimize that potential for contamination or cross contamination. The idea is that when you come up on a patient say if youre able to wash your hands some sort of sanitizer, you know sanitizer something along those lines and then prior to administering aid or treatment to a patient and then put these gloves on. And then, after treating your patient, there is a specific way to remove your gloves that lets say if there was some sort of fluid um or contagion on the gloves, theres a proper way to remove them to where you wouldnt get your hands dirty afterwards, with whatever It might be on the glove so when youre working as an emt or a paramedic, do you typically keep one set of gloves on your hands constantly throughout your shift? Never why not um, essentially, for the reasons that i just stated, i mean a few treats essentially for the reasons that i just previously stated: um, if you, if you um, treat one patient and in on an ambulance, shift a 24 hour shift 48 hour shift you About you know, one call every hour and a half thats a lot of patience that you can see.
Doesnt i mean that doesnt make sense, thats, just not one proper hygiene too its not proper protocol. It would do be detrimental to your health, every subsequent patients, health, and not only from touching or having contact with the patient themselves, but also everything else that you touch. We all know with covid how easily things can spread: youre touching doorknobs your face, pens, pencils, equipment, etc. On this particular evening after you were at the 59th car street car source, do you recall where you went after that i do so from the car source location? Here i um started walking southbound down sheridan. Did you wind up at the ultimate gas station at the intersection of 60th and sheridan? I did do you recall what, if anything, you did there nothing different than i had previously been doing so. Like i explained when there was no patient essentially to treat, then i started recording again an aclu legal observer. I thought that was the best way that night that i could provide another aspect or another perspective of an unbiased account. Video doesnt lie yes, so when you were leaving 59th street heading down to the ultimate gas station, were you still wearing your hat with paramedic written on it? I was. Did you have anyone come up to you at that particular time and request any sort of medical assistance? No, nobody did. Did there come a time in which you heard gunshots? Yes, can you tell us about that? I was slightly south of ultimate gas station um to be very specific.
I think its raised barber shop, which is either the adjacent building or one there over. While i was recording um and i had heard a series of gunshots um what i determined to be a few blocks south of where i was, what, if anything, did you do um? I first sat and listened and then had um. There were people watching my live stream, so i had been narrating essentially what i was seeing. What i was hearing id heard these gunshots and had commented on them and then after seeing and hearing people running well, i should say seeing people running northbound and then hearing people yelling medic. I started running southbound towards what i presumed at the time to be the origin of the of the gunshots. Do you recall how far south you ran theres a map up on the wall behind you, if thats helpful from my location, i couldnt have gotten more than a block um, so i uh in in reference to this map when i first heard the gunshots that would Have been right about here and then i traveled southbound and then uh never made it any more south than about here. The first place, just for the record im going to try and put that in words. Actually sorry go ahead correction. I started here and i never made it more south and about here. Okay, so you indicate you started at. I think its uh labeled on the map there on the east side of sheridan as boost mobile and check and go.
Is that right correct? Can you indicate theres a raised barber shop there also, i believe so, yes and then from there you ran south past 61st street, and you indicated you were somewhere in the middle of uh, the block between 61st and 62nd. Would that be accurate, thats accurate and what happened when you got down to that location? I had observed uh people running northbound, um, up, sheridan and again hearing people yelling for a medic, but then also i started to hear people yelling that somebody had been shot. So then, that confirmed my my assumption that somebody did in fact get shot um. It was there that uh. While i was live streaming, i i met or i had contact with with the defendant. Can we please play exhibit uh 57 limes live stream, starting at the one hour, 17 minute and 10 second mark that sounded like gunshots. It sounds like multiple gunshots people are scattering now. This is southbound on sheridan. This is, i was just 60th bro yeah dude, Music Applause. Oh this is the video you recorded correct, correct and uh. You have told us that you started running from a little bit south of 60th that gas station down south sheridan is that right, thats right were you recording with your phone? I was: were you holding your phone in your hand? While you were running, i was okay. Please continue hey. What are you doing you shot somebody whos shot? Oh, can you identify that individual on the screen? That is a defendant, we rewind 10 seconds and play that again.
Please hey, what are you doing you shot somebody? Can you tell us im going to ask you two separate questions? First of all, going back into that moment that interaction you just had with the defendant. What did you think at the time he said to you at the time? I thought that he, the defendant, had said im working with the police. I didnt do anything now that youve had a chance to review the video. Do you know what he actually says? Yes, what is that, after watching the video he said, im going to the police, and did he say anything else i didnt do anything is what i make out from its hard to hear from the muffling but thats what i make out of it. I want you to try and put yourself back in the frame of that evening when you heard him say something to the effect of. Was it im working with the police? Is that right correct? What was your reaction to that? I found it odd and um very noteworthy um previously in the night uh an individual i had recorded mr bulch had described some sort of plan with the police that they were going to essentially push demonstrators south down sheridan and then past the past. The car source lot and then from there were going to essentially retreat or back up that line, and mr bulge had explained that there was some sort of understanding, some sort of plan.
To whatever extent it is, but that the police were going to push protesters down past the car source, and he said that, then the police told him that it was up to the militia members as they refer to themselves to deal with them. When you heard the defendant say what you thought was im working with the police. Did that bring back that other knowledge? What mr balch had said? Yes, can we play the video forward just a few more seconds and then im going to pause again, hey stop in. It appears to me, mr grosskroitz, that you ran along or jogged along the defendant for a moment when you had that little interaction is that fair to say it is, and then it looks like you kind of let him continue and you turn back south again. Is that fair to say that its fair to say yes? Why did you do that? So you hear me, ask the question whos shot, who is shot um at that moment? The only thing i was concerned about was finding this person who had been shot or presumably had been shot um, given that i was still north of where i thought the shots had come from instinctually i turned you know, did a 180 facing northbound and turned southbound, Because i was concerned for whoever might be potentially injured, it appears from the video, though, that you dont go very far before you turn and head back after the defendant.
Would that be fair to say that its fair to say what changed id seen a number of people running northbound in the same direction as the defendant um? I had started hearing people saying he just shot that guy. He just shot somebody um. So then you turn around and head back north after the defendant, i wont say after the defendant um. Why did you turn around and head back north after you heard these people say these things with what mr bulge had said previously um, essentially the way that these um self proclaimed militia members were conducting themselves, the gunshots uh people yelling for a medic. My interaction with the defendant, or you know my interaction with the defendant and the really the lack of information that i had gotten from him and specifically what i had thought i had heard then, coupled with this group of people running northbound, i had essentially made an Inference or an assumption that there could be potential for somebody getting injured and anytime you bring a firearm into that equation. The stakes are much higher for both serious injury and death, based on all the factors that you just outlined for us. Did you feel, like your services, might as a medic might be more needed in the direction the defendant was headed correct? What did you do after that after i had turned around and started running in the same direction as a defendant? Again this this, i wont say that there was more people joining, but i more people were than pointing out the defendant saying that he had just shot.
Somebody uh that hes trying to get away get him things of that nature and then so again, further inferencing from the things i heard and experienced witnessed earlier in the night. I thought that the defendant was an active shooter and, like i had mentioned earlier anytime, you add a firearm into the equation or, like i said that the stakes are so much higher for somebody potentially being seriously injured or being being killed. Can we please um, pull up exhibit number five exhibit five. This is the bg on the scene. Video lets go ahead and play that ill, be pausing here in a little bit Music. We just saw you come running into the screen from the right youre. Just behind that figure in the white shirt um before this moment, had you drawn your firearm? No, where was it like? I mentioned uh at the beginning. I keep my pistol uh holstered uh in the small of my back, but dont you have it in your hand. At this point i cant see uh okay, cant see from this video. Did there come a time when you were running that you did pull your gun out? Yes, why? Again in the moment, i i i thought that the defendant was an active shooter having been not too far behind, like you mentioned, and just about to come into the frame here. Um i had uh heard several more gunshots, um and again, making inferences the defendant was the only one with a large caliber rifle um id, seen an individual jump over the defendant and then the defendant heard two shots and then from there i saw another individual used To skateboard to hit the defendant or hold the defendant either way the individual had made contact with the defendant with his skateboard and then from there i had another shot and then, as you can see, it is still an individual yeah.
Okay, i want to back up for a second, mr grosskroitz, because we have other video that shows you pulling your gun out before those shots are fired. So do you remember specifically, were you intending when you pulled your gun out? Were you intending to use it? If i had to um, i didnt draw my firearm with a express intent of of using it, but also being ready. If i had to use it lets uh continue the video for a little bit and im going to pause here, pause right. There uh weve already seen this video theres an individual on the left, who is had been shot at twice by the defendant. Then the defendant is there on the ground and theres another individual between the defendant and you anthony huber, who has been shot in the chest. At this point and that individual to the right of mr huber thats sort of crouched over thats, you correct correct, did you witness the defendant fire two shots at that man on the left? I didnt. Did you witness him fire a shot into mr hubers chest? I did so when you come upon the defendant at this point. Do you recall what you were holding in your hands? I do what were you holding? In my right hand, i had my glock pistol and my left hand. I had my cell phone. What was going through your mind at this particular moment that i was gon na die.
Lets continue the video for just a second, please pause, theres, a time in this video when you appear to hold your hands up. Do you know about that? Do you recall that you do? Why did you do that? Anthony huber was shot um you can see in the video im not too far behind him, um and the defendant had after murdering anthony hubert. The objection is to state that whether the death of anthony huber was caused by murder or not is for you jurors, to decide and not for the witness. So please keep that in mind that and people when theyre in the court and theyre testifying uh they can be affected by their emotions, sometimes for their jobs and uh, and they will from someone who comes into a physician. For example, with a gunshot wound may be identified as a victim and thats the language that they speak in the hospital, because the person comes in with a gunshot wound here in the court, where the issue is yet to be determined, whether someones, a victim or not. And its to be based on the evidence presented in court, it is a decision to be made by you, jurors, not by a witness, not by the judge, not by the prosecutor or the defense attorney. So, im going to ask you to strike the comment, which was this witnesss view of the subject and because it carries no weight its for you folks to decide any question about that.
Okay, thanks go ahead, so you had just seen mr huber get shot correct, and so what was going on in your mind, i was very close to the defendant and i thought there was a high likelihood that i would be shot myself. Can we back up and play 10 seconds, go back 10 seconds? Please, please continue Music plus at this point in the video is the defendant pointing his ar 15 at you. I see this and you have your hands raised in the air. At this point, i do continue the video please pause. Did you see the defendant? Do anything with his gun after you put your hands up, i did. What did you see him do um its a an action. Thats uh typically referred to as re racking a firearm um so after the defendant had pointed his rifle at me and put my hands up and then the defendant, like i said, did this motion its called re, racking and thats. Essentially, where you take the the the slide which, on a air 15 like that, would be on the top and you pull back and pull back and what that does is depending on. If there was already a already a bullet or a round in the chamber, which would mean it would be ready to fire, so you can put in a magazine which, where the bullets are held and the firearm wont be able to fire. But as soon as you then pull the slide back like on a pistol or on an ar 15 on the top that then either loads, the rifle or the firearm, for it to be ready to fire or if there was already around previously in the chamber.
That then ejects that round or casing, if that round, had been spent um and then reloads the next bullet into the chamber or the barrel. So after you raised your hands like this, you saw the defendant re rack, the weapon correct. What did you think was going to happen in my experiences and in my inference in that moment, for the defendant had pointed his weapon at me, and i put my hands in the air re racking. The weapon, in my mind, meant that the defendant pulled the trigger, while my hands were in the air, but the gun didnt fire. So then by re racking the weapon. I inferred that the defendant wasnt accepting my surrender did you feel that he was going to point the gun and shoot at you again. Yes, what did you do then? So if the defendant had re wrecked his weapon with the rifle still aimed at me in that moment, i felt that i had to do something to try and prevent myself from being being killed or being shot or killed, and so i decided that the best course Of action would be to close the distance between the defendant and i and then you know from there. I i dont know i mean the men trying win anthony had just tried wrestling the gun, detaining the defendants. I i i dont know because i never had an opportunity i do know, though i was never trying to kill the defendant.
It was never never something that i was trying to do. In that moment, i was trying to preserve my own life, but doing so, while also taking the life of another is not something that im capable or comfortable in doing. That goes against almost a lifelong ethical code that ive lived by in in regards to. In regards to medicine, can we back the video up 10 seconds? Please go ahead. Pause, mr gross kreitz. After seeing the defendant shoot it, one person at close range twice shoot at mr huber in the chest once and having already been told by others in the crowd that hed previously already shot someone else and having him point the gun at you and youre holding your Own pistol, in your hand, why didnt you take your own gun and shoot the defendant first, like i said, thats, not the kind of person that i am its not why i was out there thats, not why i was out there for 75 days prior to that. Why i spent up until that point spent my time my money, my education, providing care for people thats, not its, not who i am and definitely not somebody that i would want to become, and in that moment i thought it would. I tried to attempt a anonymity. The way to and that interaction when the defendant shot you where were you hit, i was hit in my right bicep. What kind of damage did that do? Um i effectively lost a large majority of my right bicep.
Can we please play exhibit 58 before we do? This i do want to let everyone know that this is going to be a very graphic. Uh exhibit um. What does exhibit 58 show myself after being shot by the defendant. Are you still holding your glock in this picture? I am had you fired your glock at all that night at any point. No, can we please show exhibit number 59 uh. Can you describe what this picture shows? Mr grosskroitz, this is me probably 30 seconds after i was shot by the defendant. Uh you see who i believe to be mr lukowski on the right of the screen. Uh me in the center with the blue, paramedic hat right above my head is mr bulch, i believe, and then to the left of me. Unfortunately, i dont know the two individuals uh, who you cant see their faces are, but then um. That is a person i came to know as cj halliburton, who was also live streaming that night and him myself and mr lukowski are. Mr halliburton is applying uh a tourniquet to my right by a setball uh mr lakowsky, and myself are um trying to instruct mr halliburton on the use and application of the tourniquet. Can we please play exhibit 60.? What that was not me were coming up to you. Your owner, i would move exhibits 58, 59 and 60 into evidence. Objection receive. Would this be a good time for a break? Dont talk about the case during the break.
Read watchers, let us know in the count of the trial. Uh. Well, see you in a little bit, you may continue. We need the jury. Oh, what is it today? What is it today? Can i just ask for a quick judge before we bring them down um? Do you have any idea what our lunch periods gon na look like uh, its warm food, so its going to be whenever it arrives? Okay, its supposed to come around noon, but the two times weve had warm food before theyve all come quite early, so lets hope for the best. Could we ask? We have a 12 to 1 break today, theres some additional issues that i made you aware of earlier. That may require some extra time. I will as much as i can. I will accommodate that, but, as i say, if the food comes warm im not going to make the jurors wait, um for more than 10 or 15 minutes max okay, so you know what yeah? Okay, thank you yep, mr grosskroyds. The last video we watched had some police individuals with their armored vehicles and they appeared to be escorting. You away. Would that be fair to say that its fair? Yes, what happened after that, after the police officers that are responded in the bearcat or that armored personnel carrier, they assisted me getting into the back of it the inside from what i remember is design theres two benches on either side with a pretty narrow walkway from Here i had officers on either side of me.
I had been seated on the floor in between the two bench seats and then from there i remember having a conversation with um. What im going to assume was the medic on that i dont know if that was a swat team or what the organization of that unit was. But it appeared to me that whoever i was having this interaction with this conversation with was the medic for lack of a more specific term um from there um from what i remember um, this swat medic was attempting to start an iv on me. We then had a conversation regarding whether or not well. Let me back that up. While this medic was trying to start an iv on me, i had begun asking him to apply another tourniquet, because my arm was still bleeding so as far as medical practices can go. If the whatever wound is still bleeding with a single tourniquet, the idea is you want this thing to be very, very tight to stop all blood flow. The idea is life over limb, but you can apply another tourniquet or an additional one. Uh yeah to assist um and stopping the bleeding um, and then from there we arrived at the hospital and the swat members.