CAA Making SWEEPING Changes to UK Drone Rules? Could Everything Change Again?
Im gon na show you the tricks. I know not getting tired of Music. Everybody is talking: Music, Music, Music, others, i Music theres, no one else who can help Music Music cause its the right time: Music, Music, Music. Ah, the geeks final theme tune is over. That means it is time for geeksvana live hello, everybody. Thank you very much for joining us this evening. Ive been looking forward to this one. Um weve got some good information for you this evening, um. Whenever people talk about sweeping changes or potential sweeping changes or um changes to regulations, we always think that this could be a bad thing, and you know i i would certainly say we all need to take a moment just to look at the fact that, in my Opinion the the current uk drone rules are actually fairly positive in terms of the previous, the previous rule, certainly for hobbyists, and certainly for sub 250 grand flyers, um being able to be into congested areas etc. And, of course, we have just gone through public consultation, where the caa, at least have certainly listened to the the drone hobby and industry. So you know it. It could turn out to be good. Who, who knows you know, but to tonight today on geek one alive were gon na, be talking about the uk drone rules and the potential that we could again be about to move into another period of change, especially for users of the open category.
Specifically now recently, the ukcaa have released cap 2367, which was titled consultation response, which was actually this one. Let me just bring that up on screen whilst im doing this part consultation response, extending the provisions for legacy and transitional category uas. Now, last week i ran through that document in detail. So if you want to know more about that topic, you can re watch the video on geeksfinder right now, overall, in terms of the extension itself, i think it was good news for the uk drone world. So today were not going to be rehashing. Those points were going through that data again weve done that. Instead, i want to look at some of the finer detail within the consultation which could have more of, in my view, a far reaching impact on the rules. Many of us actually fly under now, just a quick note to anyone thats watching the replay to this show hi replay watchers. Do please comment below as well with your thoughts on each of the sections we discussed tonight, although you wont be able to take part in the live chat, i will be reading the responses and actually responding to all of your comments as they come in. So if youre watching the replay get commenting below for each of these sections, i recently sat down with callum holland who very kindly joined us on geeksmanner from the uk caa our past policy team. So this is actually one of the people who ran the public consultation and created the recommendations that are now with the department for transport in terms of the sea label, drone area side of things.
So, rather than release this as a straight interview as normal video, as i normally would on the channel, i wanted instead to play out the the interview in clips on this live show. So we can look at the responses and see where we as a community feel it might be going. I think it would be a good exercise for us to to talk about it, so i am going to be looking into the chat, so um pretty much everything that youre hearing tonight. If you have comments on specific sections, do let me know um, because we are, this is going to be a little bit more of an interactive show than than those uh that weve had recently um. It will include me offering my opinion so that thats, something which im certainly going to be doing um so yeah so lets just very quickly say hi to people in the chat and then well jump into the main topic this evening. Thank you very much for everyone. For joining us this evening, it is a warm one down here in in the south of the uk here in surrey, just outside london um. It is probably felt closer and more sort of humid um than it has done in recent weeks. Actually, despite the temperature being around 26 27, so not even in the 30s as we hit last week, but there you go how how much more stereotypically british can i be by talking about the weather, uh chuck kovacson great, to see you bob hi, fiona anderson good To see you, it was good to see a few new names in the chat as well.
Johnny drc, jeff allen, high drone shots, uh jodie good to see you at gamblers. Um, kayaking graham tells us he hello from a cloudy rainy, scotland, uh steve page hi from edinburgh, hi steve good, to see you and uh all of our members there as well airless mean uh the flyby guys our senior moderator, andy cortez as well. But thank you guys for everybody im hopping and i really really do appreciate it. 41 degrees centigrade here says: johnny, drc um crazy, absolutely crazy, but i know you are you are over somewhere. Perhaps you would expect heat a lot of the time this theres something about uk heat dont get me started its not what were talking about tonight, its not. What were talking about, dont get me started, but theres something about its either too cold or too hot, but anyway there we go, and dj audits good good to see you as well. I hope you are well, sir, so during the recent press releases and communications that have been put out by the caa, there was mention of a wider public consultation coming. There was a podcast that jonathan nicholson from the caa put out where he had callum on as well, and they talked about the fact that there is a, i think, its something like a 90 page uh consultation coming um regarding the wider drone operations in the open Category now you hear opencasher, we talked about quite a lot for those new to the topic or unsure.
The open category is where you probably fly. Your drones were talking about the a1 a2 and a3 airspace subcategories. If you fly your your mini 2 mini 3, drone or um in in congested areas, etc, youre flying in the a1 air space in the open category, if you fly with an a2 cmc and youve, got your air, 2s, etc. You are still flying in the open category, so its its its an important section and its interesting that its specifically the open category that theyre actually going to be looking at next. There was also discussion surrounding not only delaying the implementation of the drone class marking system, but also and im, going to quote from the opening line of the reg of the actual recommendations here, uh ill pull it up, so everybody can see it. This will form part of a larger investigation into the current uas open category regulatory framework and what is most suitable for the united kingdom and, of course, that the cl theyve also mentioned here. The class marking scheme should be reevaluated so effectively. What were looking at here is quite a significant change, thats possible frankly so theres that theres a big potential for significant changes to uk drone rules within a relatively short period of time. After adopting the eu rules with a few tweaks, not only are the caa going to investigate potential changes to the open category in general, but keep in mind if we do see a review of the drone class marking system, something that the open category drone use is Pretty much built around the whole a1, a2, a3 subcategories and the c0 to c4 drones, then that could actually be something which is going to have potentially significant knock on effects.
If you remember, when the uk was part of the eu, remember all that time ago, we were on course to adopt the full easer regulation changes and stay under yeah. In fact, even once brexit was confirmed, it was only at relatively short notice at a late stage. Uh, it was actually announced by the dft that the uk would be leaving essa as well and would adopt a a version of the eu rules, which is what weve currently got in place at the moment. But they are uk specific. Now, although much of the language within the existing rules we follow in the uk is similar to the eastern member states across europe, its a completely different system. Hence your drone registration, your uk, a2 cmc or gbc – are not valid in the eu in the es estates and, of course, vice versa. So it could make sense that perhaps there are further changes we could make to the existing rules to suit the use of drones. Here in the uk, as an industry during the covered years, finding its feet under the new regulatory system, which was put into place, the uk industry drone industry has innovated and we do lead the world in some of the exciting projects and leaps forward. The commercial sector has made this proposed review, however, will be focused as ive been saying on the open category, so it will be looking at recreational or hobbyist flights, as well as the lower end commercial operations.
Open category flights include the worlds of gps, camera drones and fpv and the wider rc hobby, so it will be quite a significant change so time for our first clip from my interview, the cia, here i discussed with callum the positive response from the drone community to The caa recommendations in terms of the c labels being moved, hi callum. How are you very well? Thank you. How are you im very good? Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us again on on geeksvana um. It was. It was great to chat with you last time and um theres lots of exciting things happening within within the drone world here in the uk, so its great to to have you back on um to talk about this now we are, of course today talking about the The legacy transition period, uh public consultation, response and recommendations, nothings changed were still in the current situation, but we are now at the point where we have a recommendation and i think a lot of people have felt very positive by the fact that the caa have listened To the stakeholders yeah absolutely and we have we – we went into this with no preconceived notions of what a final opinions. The dft would look like im sure we all internally had our own personal thoughts. You know something you you you cant not do or not. Have we were overwhelmed, i think, by the sheer number of resources from a from a community engagement standpoint, it felt good to us to be able to hear from the community at that scale.
I dont think its something weve had before and i dont want to go over old ground. It was pivotal in shaping our opinion to the dft, all of those four thousand five hundred and i believe, six responses. If people said that regulators dont, listen and – and it is, it can be something because, of course, regulators, dont just have the stakeholders to consider they have the general public, they have security concerns theres. All sorts of there are hundreds of different things which i realize go into this side of things so to have both the stakeholders, so the everybody from recreational drone units users all the way through to future flight participants, etc and and the caa on the same sheet Is its great to see yeah, it was really good to see that alignment. You raised a really important point. I i i know it will be. I dont want it read into too much, but the overall objective of the caa is safety thats, our overarching objective, and if something in this consultation, uh went against some safety principle, then our recommendation would have been different. I think its just really important to remember that. Its we are happy, of course, that everything aligned and we were able to voice um, that you know the communitys feedback to the department of transport um, because we didnt identify any sufficient safety risks. That would suggest we had to do something. Otherwise, so you know not to be read into, but for future consultations.
We, we were really keen to continue this mechanism of feedback and capturing as much feedback as possible to drive that opinion, but our overarching um job here as a caa is safety. So this isnt to say that every future consultation will align completely with what the community wants. Obviously, if theres opportunity to then it will so interesting there from the point of view of um, the caa themselves are obviously fairly happy with the fact that the opinions did align, but they are warning that obviously that wont always happen because they are safety led. So thats an interesting one. Thank you just very quickly to our members um our channel members uh. If youre, if youre a channel member you actually get special emojis, one of which weve got, is a microphone with miking capital, letters and exclamation marks, because theres always an audio issue, it wouldnt be geeks via live without an audio issue of some kind im. The only person in the studio this evening the clips are recorded and i still managed to have one. So thank you very much guys um for spamming that in the chat i was able to fix that problem very quickly. So, as i say, all pretty straightforward there um up next, i asked callum about the re evaluation of the class marketing system, so this is one of the more interesting parts where this subject starts to get a little bit deeper and what this might look like.
A few questions and um some of our viewers and myself spotted a few things in the recommendations which, which would be good just to take a sort of deeper dive on if thats, okay, um and and the first one is. What, in the caa policy team view. Does reevaluation of class marking scheme look like and evolve with what kind of potential outcomes do you expect from that as well? So because, of course, youve said that you want to re, evaluate it and thats sort of pricked? Quite a few is in the industry, especially to say: okay whats happening there um what what? What in the policy teams view? Does that actually look like yeah? I mean it. It is what it says on the tin as part of this consultation. We havent just listened to the feedback in terms of whats relevant to this specific task. This this extension weve listened to the feedback for what the community is generally saying and also our own internal expertise, and what industry more generally is telling us, and we think now, you know as a result of departing european union and having this legislative framework that we Have taken control of ourselves, there is scope to see if theres opportunity to improve it for the united kingdom, um alone and thats, exactly it its an exercise that hasnt yet been done were only a year or two into this new framework and weve seen it as An opportunity to go right lets stop lets reflect.
Is this the right thing for the community? If it is what does it look like if it isnt what needs to be done differently that addresses the industrys concerns the communities concerns, but also the safety concerns as well? So at the moment, its nothing more than that, okay, excellent um and the potential outcomes. From that kind of thing i mean, could we see a situation where um we? We have a completely different system to to yeah so that uh, for instance, it doesnt actually matter what c marking it has on the drone um, but that its its its everything under 800 grams is a c2 or this is that is, is every outcome possible? Yes, it would be wrong during the discovery phrase phase to take any um potential outcome off the table immediately. So you know, every outcome is on the table up for discussion and therell be consultations in the future on this um, but every option is currently being considered. Interesting there, so this this to me could be the first significant sign of change. Coming to the uk. Drone rules to re evaluate the class marking system that weve all been spending this much time getting used to as theres. Quite a few videos ill have to take down on my my on my channel for a start would have far reaching impact on the open category in terms of the outcome. Apparently, the table is open, so itll be interesting. Let me know in the live chat, whether or not you have embraced the seed label system uh the c, the c 0 to c 4, whether you think it should be dropped and we should just go by weights um.
So you know anything: thats under 250 can have the the current rules. Anything under 700 can be this and etc. I mean how? How do you think that that that re evaluation should happen? Obviously youre going to get your opportunity so its good to think about it? Now, uh, when the public consultation comes further down the line, once we get past this period once once once this regulator, change happens in itself, so its going to be an interesting one, really um ill have more to say in general on this and some of the Other topics a little bit later on, so i want to play a few more of these clips out first, but next were going to talk about what that word. Indefinite means in terms of uh the legacy extension. The word indefinite has been used previously. Obviously, with the 250 gram sub 250 gram drone side of things, and here again we have the situation where were sort of in an indefinite view. As far as um, essentially removing the legacy and transition periods. Is there any known period of time that the time that the class marking review and implementation will take place? So it forms part of the previous question around the overall assessment of class marking and perhaps an opportunity to simplify it and improve it potentially um? So really it comes down to that. We need to do that assessment on whats best for the uk and then implement it as soon as reasonably practicable and none of us like delay we all like getting on with the job um.
We really need to do that. First, though, and thats really the nuance of the indefinite wording in our proposal, it gives us that time it gives us that scope. It gives us that opportunity to primarily consult with the community and have a good period of consultation with the community as well. So when we do it its done properly its not done fast, yes, excellent, which, which is which is again um uh. I think i think we we will be pleased once that process is over because, of course, well have something that hopefully suits the uk system. Um and – and it has been well thought out – is there any plans to um distance yourselves as far as a regulator from the c labeling system that type of thing, as far as removing it from the drone code, whilst the whole things under evaluation, because obviously, at The moment a new user will go on to the drone code and well see you know. The sea labeling very clearly explained um and sort of it its its very much uh part of of that framework, and indeed, a lot of the questions we get from new drone flyers surround confusion on that side of things is: is this something that the caa will Will keep within that within their text whilst the review is going on? Yes, we absolutely acknowledge the potential that this can cause confusion, especially for those just getting into the industry, perhaps um that will form part of the initial review into this overall piece around the open category and the class marking scheme so thats, something that you know we Weve kind of got a structure of what we think, what questions need answering first and that part very much comes at the forefront in order to potentially remove some ambiguity moving forward.
So again, here i felt like callum from the rpas policy team at the caa was was very careful to ensure that were aware that changes could be coming to the c label system rather than just a delay um, as as we were previously focusing on now. Clearly, a regulator is unlikely, in my opinion, my personal opinion to run a re evaluation when the intention is to make no changes. What these changes could form is something were obviously going to have the opportunity to comment on in a further in a further future. Public consultation, which is exciting, especially as theyve, listened to us on this one, but to me its very interesting as again: the class marking system, the c labels, as as we call them, are so central to the drone rules just very quickly catch up with anybody. Uh um asking questions in the chat or making comments, um old tech man i didnt notice, yours um. Your comment was done still, waiting, still annoyed that im going to have to spend additional money uh just to bin my legacy mini to get a new mini with a c marking. Well, in actual fact, the legacy sub 250 camera drones um will actually be able to carry on flying indefinitely with the current um benefits, so you wont actually the sub 250. So the um, the nano pluses and the the mini threes mini twos mini se, which is a great drone. You wont actually have to repurchase that one as things stand, because that is going to be going on indefinitely, which is actually whats happening to sub 250 grams, and the under under these proposed changes is a question which i will come on to in the interview with Callum um very soon, uh doc murdoch chris hi great to see you doctor fpv at least theyre looking forward and listening to the flyers.
Unlike the faa. Here i have to give hats off. You know the fact that callums come along again for this interview, its his second time on the channel so far, weve had the caa on geeksvana quite a few times now, since i first met them in person back in um late last year at the dronex conference And you know again they theyre putting out podcasts regularly. Now they started a new podcast series which you can find on on the caa, twitter, feed and um. They are coming on more channels, theyre coming out theyre wanting to talk and and actually um uh uh engage with with with the the drone community uh all stakeholders in the drone communities. I do have to congratulate them for that. I i do agree with you. Uh flysky drones, tony hi good, to see you uh would see labeling just uh get dumped like most things um the government. Do they keep changing their minds? Well, i think that theres, a small factor of the fact that obviously brexit happened. We were going to stay in nasa, then we werent and were not going to be able to come up with dramatically different rules very, very quickly, with covid everything else going on, so the eu rules were adopted. This is just my take on it and now were finding that there are actually sections to it like the sub 250 gram, uh rule, which is actually the indefinite side of things and the whole way that we measured, uh, takeoff, mass etc, is different here to the Eu slightly and there might actually be room for other rules to change which, as i said at the beginning, could actually be more benefit than and and and more good than bad frankly, but well have to wait and see on that.
One at leicester from above hi good to see you to be honest. If all the change um goes against drones, i own uh theres a problem. I bought them all and was perfectly legal to fly at the time for keeps. Yes, we we will. We will move on to that section next. Actually, because, though, there is interesting, feedback in terms of there seems to be more, in my opinion, from the conversations that im having from these interviews, there seems to be more appetite to allow the existing drones time to phase out. Rather than just being this harsh border of you know the mavic 3 that he bought this year, cant be flown next year, but well come on to that. So one of the points that i brought up at the end was in terms of removing the sea label system from the drone code, which i personally think is quite important. It needs to happen, in my opinion. Quite soon, as the indefinite delay to the system is is confirmed by the dft and parliament. So as soon as we have that in place, i think we need to remove that from the drone code. Frankly, the confusion it already brings is bad enough. I already have lots of people asking me: what is a sea label is this. Is that et cetera, but we could easily see a situation where the eos estates release their sea label drone systems sooner than the uk. So there is no intended essa review of sea label.
Drones theyve set a new firm date for their sea labels to be in place, so we really obviously want to avoid a situation where the uk drone code states. You can use c label drones. Such drones get released for the european market for yes estates, but you actually cant use those here in the uk, so that situation would obviously be very confusing for consumers im sure the caa will make some changes before that happens. But until we have more certainty, i dont think there should be any more mention of it in the drone code at all. Frankly, so up next, i discussed with callum from the caa rpas policy team, the proposed review of the open category and therefore the rules that most of us fly our drones over. This is the more general review. Are you able to elaborate on something? This is? This? Is something which i i i picked up on the within the consultation and i felt like okay? Is there a trojan horse in here somewhere have we have? We found a huge story here where there is going to be a larger investigation into current uas use within the open category. Does this mean weve got potentially more significant changes to come to the base regulations? Yes, so absolutely not a trojan horse and we we are very much about transparency im working with the community. You know theres a line there within the consultation. I cant remember the the specifics of it, but theres an opportunity for a complete re evaluation here of the opening category, because you know a very big part of the open category regulation was the class marking scheme so were taking a step back were doing what will Be a very difficult job, but one that needs doing and having an overall look at the opening category.
Is there an opportunity of simplification? Is there an opportunity to increase safety for the community and for everybody else, and i think thats something thats only right and proper? If were going to be looking at class marking schemes anyway, yes, so so, essentially, if you do review and and the review outcome is a different system for class marking, whether thats no class, marking or or however, or staying the same, that that could obviously have impact On the rest of the regulations, as you say, everything else is kind of built off that your a2 cmc youre very much looking forward to c2 label drones if there arent c2 label drones in the same way. How does that impact everything so its really? The the ripple effect essentially and – and that gives you an opportunity, if youre changing a core item to to look at everything to say: okay, does everything else still suit and still fit around that central class marking system, absolutely excellent? Okay, that makes complete sense. Thank you. It it it was, it was a an important subject to cover because, as i say, you know, i think, are they trying to sneak something through there then actually theres nothing sneaky going on. I can assure you excellent. That sounds good, so nothing sneaky going on from the caa, with with the um the mention of a review of the open category um in this recommendation, so that thats thats um uh reassuring to hear.
So. This is an opportunity to for a complete review of the open category. I do note – and i think you should also note the discussion of the term increasing safety in there again. In my opinion, a regulator would not discuss a review in the first couple of lines of its recommendation to government. If theyre not seeking some form of change, i would walk that on slightly that a regulator whos only just recently implemented pretty sweeping changes to the drone rules and taking a lot of time and effort to to get those understood would not look to upset the cart With a tweak here or there, so we could be looking at some significant changes ahead. Well have to wait and see, though, from that point of view, next up, i discussed with callum the line uh with the recommendations that look to ensure, because it actually does state in this in this recommendation, which ill pull up again, um that there is theyre looking To ensure the fact that were going to be able to use our legacy, drones um beyond the period where um its not gon na, be such a harsh cut off, essentially so that theres that were gon na have sea label drones fully available before the next transition Stage is even is even um thought about, essentially, which i know uh is being raised in the chat um by nick carborne, for instance, um saying that hes not gon na be happy if he cant fly his mavic 3, but i dont think from what weve been Told that thats necessarily going to be a problem, but lets take a listen to the next part of the interview.
The transitional period is going to be reintroduced when uh class mark uas are on the open market, which sounds fantastic recommendation reads itself. This would ensure the regulated community has a suitable amount of time to naturally phase out older uas. What kind of period does the caa think this would form in terms of you know, lets lets say i buy a mavic 3 at the end of this year and um that thats exactly when the new uh uh c c, one rated mavic 3 comes out just After how how long a period do you think i would have to use my my older uh legacy? Mavic 3 und under any kind of new transition period sure well its not currently defined what the original transitional period was was two years, and we believe that the spirit of that two years was to allow for the adoption, retirement of new and all aircraft and respectively Um, i think we would see something similar if, if we get to that point – but i think the important thing to remember here is this – this consultation that this opinion to dft is in order to mitigate something thats going to happen on the 1st of january. If we dont and we have to build in provisions for all potential outcomes, you know theres potential outcomes of a complete, complete re evaluation of the class marking scheme and adaptation of it or continue business as usual and actually move forward with it.
So our proposal, our opinion to dft, takes care of all of those potential outcomes, and one of them is if its business and you as usual, we do implement class marketing schemes, as they currently exist, well its to provide protection really to the end user to the Consumer that you, you will have a substantial transitional period at the point you have an opportunity to purchase craftsmart qas and not before so i i cant say i would expect two years all beyond: okay, excellent, so um its essentially the the insurance part of it. Where? Because where it says this would ensure the regulated community has a suitable amount of time to naturally phase out older us. The the way the caa are are recommending that that happens is by not implementing a new transitional period until the the the class marking drones. Whatever they end up looking like are actually freely available and on the market, because then you can say you can now you now have this alternative to purchase so actually were going to say we have, you know, have a and we wont again, we wont put a Date on it because, because its impossible this day, but then with the period that we have now until this happens, and that then thats quite a lengthy period for anybody, thats thinking about upgrading or buying new drones in the next six to 12 months, theyre going to Have a decent amount of time with that drone absolutely and thats one of the areas in which our opinion, i i hope, mitigate some of the concern for the community and thats around uncertainty.
Yes, uncertainty for recreational operas operators and commercial operators to make purchasing decisions, and we completely understand it and that provision there was really built in to hopefully mitigate some of that concern. Okay, so interesting, there quite quite a lot to unpack, but essentially the main highlight that that i think we could take there from that is that we are looking at a situation, and this has been the conversations. This also follows a lot of the conversations that ive been having with the ca as far as what the intention of the original transition period was, and everything else like that as well. That theyre not looking to have a situation where your brand new mavic 3 can no longer be flown in the a2s base, purely because suddenly theres theres a c1 version out. So you must now only fly that one, the the the new transitional, the um new legacy period will only start and will only be considered and will only be looked to be put into place once sea label drones, whatever form they take after the review of the Sea labels actually are on the market, so were talking about situation of lets, say they. They came out you know in in in in january of next year, which they will see theyre not going to its going to be its going to be a longer period than that, but lets say we had suddenly a c1 mavic 3. Then i would expect from what what theyre telling me from my interpretation.
You would then expect a transitional legacy period to be put into place following that which will give you a good couple of years, at least to be able to use your existing drones before you have to actually move across. Obviously the new drones, the c1s, are going to have benefits your non c1 rated um mark uh. Mavic 3 will still have to stay 50 meters away from people with an a2 cmc, but the one with the c1. You only have to read the the manual and register it etcetera um, and then you can have zero separation of people um with the one to one rule and no intentional flights over so theres gon na still be some benefits, so i can still see people wanting To hop across to them at some stage, it would be interesting to see how it affects the next releases of dgi drones, whether people still hold off or the fact that weve now got probably quite a few years before we actually see a legacy period. End and youre being forced across into the new drones, whether or not people would look to actually purchase new drones, but beyond that um in in the chat here, three uh bad mice, great username. In my opinion, there are quite a few opportunities here. Im personally super impressed that caa are doing this um also worth keeping in mind the caa and the government are arent the same thing exactly uh. Hence the the the recommendations that have gone forward to the dft are just that.
So its going to be interesting, and i think that that will also be a little bit of a test from the point of view to see how the recommendations from the caa, just regarding the extension of the legacy and transition periods go down with government and go Through parliament, in terms of what kind of condition it comes back as legislation um to see if theres anything there, frankly, uh really really music hi good to see you hope, youre well, sean. I think it should be a minimum of five years once to see labeled drones become available, and i i know they had. You know the the answers to the public consultation. The beyond 24 months was by far by far the most popular frankly so, which i i dont think theres anything um, which is um surprising there stubby hi good to see you. Are we not driving ourselves into creating rules for no reason at all, keep the rules as basic as possible and grading drones is nonsense and very much a waste of time and money. Well, theres, going to be a public consultation, so were going to be able to put our views forward on this and it it feels to me. I dont know how you felt with this. The interview clips and the the press releases that have been put out by the cea. It feels to me that thats, not that theyre not happy with, but they feel that the there is a reason to re, evaluate the class marking system and that we could see changes there.
It just feels that way to me personally so up next, we covered the sub 250 gram, drone area and um again. This is where um um full hats off to calum, for the fact that he is able to answer these questions that you cant really give answers to yet because of course, they are the regulator. Theyre not theyre, not the the legislator as such um. But of course, the regulators opinion is very, very important. Somebody did actually ask in the um in the chat. Does uh callum actually have a drone and yes, actually callum? Who is a fairly recent um um hire at the caa with the rpas policy team is extremely experienced within the drone industry and a drone flyer himself. Um hes literally dealt with drones. Everything from you know your minis and mini twos. All the way, through to the professional side of things um, with with very high end jobs in in the in the private sector as well, um hes um. I think its good to have somebody, and i think, the way he talks and the way that hes able to to come to these interviews and rattle off the policy and talk confidently about drones shows that the caa, in my opinion, are putting the right people on The rpas policy team in terms of people that actually you know, know what theyre talking about as as as such, so up. Next, as i say, we talked about the all important sub 250 gram, drone area.
I knew i wasnt going to get a particularly straight answer because they cant answer if theyre, if theyre re evaluating the open category, but i felt like you really wanted to forgive me if i didnt ask the next area of conversation is surrounding sub 250 gram, drones And there are many many users out there, many recreational users as well, who take a a very sharp breath in whenever they see changes are coming to drone regulations and, of course, our our very much coveted and are are very much enjoyed. Sub 250 gram. Drone uh benefits, as i call them here in the uk. Are there any plans within any of the investigations to to review that side of things? So the entire opening category is up for assessment that there are currently absolutely no plans whatsoever substantively to make any changes to current um regulation within the open category, with notwithstanding sub 250, not the whole breadth of it. So the message is its very much business. As usual, so no plans to make any changes, although of course its impossible to answer. So. Thank you callum for for attempting to answer an impossible question. Frankly, uh, when a review of the entire open category is intended, but again its an interesting question to ask its one ive asked a few times behind the scenes as well. In my conversations and i dont feel whether youre talking about enforcement legislation or regulator, the conversation to have in those three spaces, i dont feel an appetite to stop the sub 250 benefits.
I i just dont feel that they feel theres any kind of significant issue there. If anything as im as im about to come on and say with with my opinion on this um, i think were proving ourselves to be a safe and um reliable hobby. Frankly. So so, as i say, no no plans for any changes there, its its important as well. Actually just one mentioning thank you to callum thanks as well to jonathan nicholson from caa for his help. Putting this interview together, um. I really appreciate all of his support. Um and hes been very keen in terms of getting messages out through geeksvana. So what could these changes be? What what do you want these changes to be? I mean theyre, obviously going to be good and bad. I would say, as as anything really happens with these things, if theyre focused on safety, then in my opinion, surely the changes should mainly the vast majority be positive. Only the open category in its short life has proven itself to be safe in my opinion, and should have built some trust, with both the regulator, government and and the enforcement side of things. Despite the bv loss of session – and i know thats in the chat there and its again, its great because were going to be able to have this conversation um and the behavior of some fringe elements, i think that overall um our use of hobby flight, particularly and The lower end commercial flight um in the open category has been responsible frankly, so i would hope that the changes are mainly going to be positive, but again were going to have to wait and see.
From that point of view, if were looking at a review based on creating a more uk, focused version of the current rules, then that should hopefully be again a positive thing to help suit uh consumers and the industry as a whole. So what would you like to see change if again live chat, im going to go back through and read, everybodys comments were going to do a little sort of mop up live show in a couple of weeks um to look at what people feel if youre watching The replay do make sure that you put your comments um below as well. For me what i, what i would like to see is the sub 250 gram. Um benefits continue and perhaps extend those a little to allow for people to add safety items such as strobe lights, etc to their drones without tipping it over the weight limit. I think there would be – or certainly you know, the the bass drone should be sub 250. Minus add, ons and those add ons could be listed, perhaps rather than having to put it up to 300 grams or 350 grams, or something because to me. Drones, like the mini 3 and the nano plus are much closer to that 250 gram limit now than previous models, and i i sense concern when someone wants to put a strobe light to make it a bit safer. As far as visual line of sight, and and also of course, flying at night and that type of thing that they have a little bit hesitancy about putting those on the newer ones, because we dont have the few grams that we used to have with the mini 2, certainly so um yeah.
I think i think that that would be a good one to do this ones slightly more controversial in the wider terms, because i think it might be an opportunity to bring the fpv community into the uk drone rules fold and support the future of that part of The hobby and profession with some specialist rules – perhaps i always state that fpv the fpb rules are almost end up being thrown away. Essentially, as the first part of the average users. Experience is the spotter rule and of course, so many people, although i agree with the spotter rule, i think its important for safety as well, but i also think theres room for something like a form of maybe shielded operations to become something we embrace in the uk. This would be perhaps where fpv pilots could fly with goggles on and no spotter, when there are natural boundaries to the field and flying in um and and and below uh uh, the natural boundaries of trees and that type of thing, its something im open to being Persuaded on either way, frankly and thats the good thing about the fact that were going to get a public consultation. But i think its an important opportunity, a great opportunity to support an important part of the hobby with fpv. And i think we need to at least see the regulator engaging in the public consultation on that side of things and see if we can find some middle ground um.
I i i would say that theres, surely a set of fpv rules that will then be embraced and supported by users is better than the existing situation of the rule. The number one rule basically being ignored by the majority of fpv flyers. Now i would also state that overall, i do actually have a lot of trust in the existing caa team. Certainly the members that ive been dealing with who, in my view, they dont, want to spell out every single little rule. Thats thats certainly been emphasized to me and make it impossible to fly um thats. Why there almost needs to be some grey areas: interpretation in these rules, because common sense and reasonable assessment of the situation youre actually flying in is also important. So it doesnt mean im not concerned because, of course, theres plenty of negative forces out there and the caa are not the legislator. Theyre, not parliament, theyre, not the government and the use of drones. Um can have a negative impact with all sorts of fake stories and real stories out there uh from the from the general public, so its going to be an interesting one to see just very quickly catch up on um the uh. The chat here before we move on to the the final clip uh personally, everyone should be at least a2cfc qualified to fly um, but then it should cover any drone. He owns yeah its an interesting one there nick carbon. Thank you for that.
I have said that before when i first took the a2cfc, i did actually say that i wondered if it should be the flyer id almost uh from the point of view not having to um pay the the the higher level. But i think almost that kind of training should be the base training. So i i dont disagree with you with you. There pd tech hi great to see you hope, youre very well. One of our regular viewers, 120 meters is plenty for a drone. Dont see much point flying any higher and im rarely at 120 meters to be fair, because most of the interesting stuff to film is down here so um, yes, exactly barry p 249 gramm equals save 251 ram equals killer drone and they have to put that that Limit somewhere, but i think some allowances so that we can have add ons and that type of thing which many of those add ons, actually make the drone safer for use as well um. I think i think, could be a good thing. Um barry p. I would prefer to be hit by my mini three row than my than the mavic 3 exactly, but the good thing is hopefully were going to be able to have what we are going to be able to have this conversation uh in the public consultation with the Caa and hopefully itll be listened to as much. You know. We we, we may all be surprised and find that we are again as as as stakeholders as industry and and recreational flyers.
We are again aligned with the caa its happened recently so uh. It could happen again, a dog russell sharam, you cant even add a bright orange skin to a mini three without making over the weight limit for sure making it more visible is important for safety yeah exactly so. I i dont think that that would be um, something which would be um again as long as its worded correctly. You could still have it at 250 plus, add ons, or something like that. I think that would be a simple way of doing it. So um 107 drones uh do you think conducted propellers may become a requirement, its really something that weve that weve had too much discussion of it will be interesting to see because, of course, this will be. The first review weve had since things like remote, id and and and and the class system of drones for flying over people in the united states, where the faa has come out so itll be interesting to see if theres any looking over the pond at that. Um. Sorry very cliche to call it the pond, but there we go. Um itll be interesting to see whether whether that comes into things or not, and of course i think, with the open category youll see with my my next videos on on beyond visual line of sight. Following up from our release this week on that subject that i think remote id is obviously going to be part of the potential of opening up beyond visual line of sight, its going to be an important part of it.
So i i im certain the remote id will ruin its head in any kind of review of the open category there as well, and the can the caa um look at the uk being able to approve the longer flight batteries for the mini 3. Pro ive been asked about this by a few people, because obviously, when the mini 3 pro came out, we managed to get a statement from dgi and confirmed that it was actually the eu rule changes that wouldnt have actually been quite the same in the uk anyway. Um that were preventing them from being sold in the uk. We have reached out to dgi to say look. This is happening if we get a formal legislation change and it becomes indefinite. Does that mean that the the batteries will be um released here in the uk? I see no reason why not thats purely a dgi decision and nothing to do with the regulator or legislators in this country, thats dji, wanting to ensure that the maximum takeoff mass of the of of the mini drones in the eu, the ones that are sold in The eu directly are not above the 250, so they dont lose that future c0 status. Frankly and the goose writer says whatever happens, you can guarantee that caa will always make things uh more complicated than they actually are just like dji. With the fly safe website asking you to custom unlock near a geo fence and thats the thing isnt it its one of the challenges that i have seen in terms of the work we have done with those that enforce the rules and um those that legislate and And regulate the the these things have to be a blanket coverage.
They cant have specific. Okay youve been flying drones for 15, 20 years, youre extremely you know, model last season, then five ten years of drones, youre extremely qualified. You can do this, but actually the person. Next to you, whos just picked one up from arkos. I can only do this its very difficult to legislate like that, so it has to be a blanket, so it can come across as complex. Sometimes clocks, i cant remember, is the mini 3, less 250 grams with the larger batteries, or does that take it slightly, it does take it over. I think it takes it actually over um 40 grams, with the with the longer battery clocked um. I hope youre well good to see you as well, and yes as as um insane d dj uk there you go, took me a while to get around my head around that that used them cool username, as he stated it does take it over the 250.. So there we go. That is the the latest information that i have regarding the potential sweeping changes coming to the drone rules again here in the uk. I think, as some people in the chat have also um mirrored this sentiment. I think its a brave thing to do. I think its a good thing that the uk caa are taking this step, theyre, not just hiding behind the fact that the rules have only just changed. We cant have any other tweaks or large changes or small changes.
Of course, we dont know what those are going to form we dont know if, if, if the dft are even going to agree with their recommendations, from that point of view, i would hope they would personally um. But yes, i will keep you informed fully of any changes that we have from this from this side of things. I do actually have one more clip to play out actually very quickly, which i almost forgot to do regarding a2. So well, just well just listen to this final clip. Our next topic surrounds a2cfc holders who of course, will be impacted from this, but from the point of view, of course, that im an asuc holder, i took mine quite early on obviously youd expect as a youtuber. You know how did i pass my a2 cmc was a nice clicky video for me to put up um and ive, been looking forward to there for class marking drones coming onto the market, to give me um some more benefits as far as separation distances are concerned, Et cetera, are there any plans or are? Is there any anything that that you can say as far as whether or not a2 cfc holders who have taken their um tests and passed have have their certificates will be given any kind of extension to um to marry up with the new potential with the potential New class marking scheme yeah its a good question currently that there are no plans yeah.
The a2 today offers certain uh uh privileges anyway, regardless of class marked so its not wasted money as it were, you can do stuff. Yes, if you didnt have it today already. I think, despite there being no plans uh now to to to to change anything there. Everything for the open category is up for review. Think its also important specifically around the a2 and any competence requirement to look at the. Why we have renewals and the. Why is usually skill fade or knowledge fade? So i think its really important. This comes back to the caa, our main thing safety. Perhaps five years, is long enough until we need to do a knowledge phase, renewal or skill fade renewal as it were. Yes and and weve seen things like the uh, the flyer id test, update and grow uh for for for as youre saying safety reasons and therefore again, what we put a2 cfc holders through in a couple more years time because of the review may be different as Well, so the a2 certificate itself may change so yeah. That was an interesting one. Im glad i remembered to play that last part out, so its gon na have a little stream deck here, which gives me all of my videos. I need to play its very warm today, so i think one slight audio issue and uh me almost forgetting to play out the um, the lesser interesting part of the a2coc renewal, because there is a question that a few of you have asked.
I thought i would ask it um isnt bad. Is it frankly so so there we go. As i say. Thank you very much all for joining us this evening, a fantastic crowding. Can you all? Do me one huge favor? Please could we all just hit the like button on on your way out this evening, id really really like to get that up, but much closer to the 100 likes mark. It does help promote the video the algorithm like see the like button being here. I see you all starting to hit it now. Thank you very much um, but yeah. I will see you next time on geeksvana weve got some very interesting videos coming up uh.