We are good morning good evening, good night, wherever you are whatever you’re doing, thanks again for joining us here at drone. U hq coming at you all the way from the desert of the south west. As always, my name is paul and, as always, my name is rob super glad, as always to be in the seat. Talking with you all and uh, very grateful that you’re hanging out with us definitely very grateful seriously. Thanks for all the support, especially with all the support that we’ve gotten recently uh regarding the air map article that we wrote on the blog for a lot of you, i have been putting a lot of time into the blog connecting the dots providing information that i Think other people just don’t see – and i like that – because it provides an opportunity to kind of peruse through information and connect the dots so check out that blog article on air map, because if you remember years ago here at drone, u we had leaked a document. An email between air map and their lobbying group essentially showcasing their exact uh goals and what they were really after and that their interests were nowhere near in the interest of drone pilots like remember how we were telling you how they could use the data of you Going on air map and learning where airspace is getting those airspace waivers through airmap, how are they using the data? Well, they’re selling the data and they said that’s right on twitter, that they’re trying to help governments use that data to learn where and when to tax drone pilots for takeoff and landing.
So you heard it here first four or five years ago, and it was just confirmed by airmap themselves by a low level social media, employee who went on twitter and said exactly what air maps goals are and someone at air map kind of forgot to tell her. Hey that shouldn’t be public knowledge, but check out that post on the blog we did screenshot all the tweets, so you can still see them. I know they’re deleted off twitter now, but check them out and uh thanks again seriously for the support. I think it also proves where our hearts and our minds are a drone you which is really about helping you out, and i i just i can’t reiterate that enough. Yesterday i got the chance to fly with a firefighter and it was like the fuel to my dumpster fire. I mean we should be around here when that happens, and paul comes back from that he’s floating it’s, just so much fun to fly with heroes and help them and and uh this wasn’t, even a training. It was just you know, meet and greet demo and just grateful for it grateful to help people out who who are really open to learning. They want to advance it’s just so much fun, there’s, just no greater joy in helping someone achieve something that they maybe thought that they could do, but didn’t know that they could do it. You know, maybe even don’t think they can do but they’re willing to try and that anyone who has that i’d like to work with you but uh let’s, get on to today’s show so part 107 drone rule changes.
As many of you know, the remote id rules came out in december. I think it was the 28th this year and uh. On top of that, we got some new rules regarding flight over people, nighttime waivers part, 107, etc, and i just want to say thank you. So much for everyone’s patience in us getting that material out. There was a lot of uh articles and information put out on the internet, and a lot of them were very haphazard. In my opinion, um now i’ve put out haphazard material as well so i’m, not really coming from a place of authoritarianism. But that said, i thought it was an opportunity to take my time with this information go through it and provide an organized, succinct explanation, and i also actually think that the patience paid off because um i’ve been um. Maybe trolling isn’t the right word but creeping on a bunch of faa employees on facebook, which facebook makes it very easy to track those people like i’m in their back pocket, which is why you should get off facebook um, but long story short, is um. They answered some questions to some drone pilots regarding recurrency and by waiting and by having your support and your patience, we’re able to provide a lot more information, a lot more succinctly and help you kind of weed through uh the nonsense and understand the practical application of How this affects you so let’s get into today’s question, which again is about part 107, but before we get there quick aside, just want to say thank you, everyone in the drone.
U community seriously, we love you guys and we love the facebook community, but we’re just going to let you know that very soon, we’re moving everything off of facebook. We think facebook is the enemy of society, or at least i think that i think, if a lot of people actually understood what was going on, they would believe the same thing. That said, we want to make sure that we don’t lose the engagement and that’s. Also, why we’re moving off of facebook so we’re really excited to launch our own uh thing here very soon and we’re very excited to kind of supercharge our community and we’re very excited to supercharge our new classes, and with this new system we can actually do a Much better job of saying: hey: we have a new class, hey here’s, another way to go out and make money with your drone. So for me, that’s really exciting, because our new classes only get traction if we pump the crap out of them with marketing. So i’m. Really really really excited to kind of one up. The facebook algos provide a different means of engagement in the community and provide a place where your data will not be stolen. That said, uh thanks again to everyone in the drone. You community really do appreciate you i’ll save the i’ll, save the prop stuff for the for the next uh sponsor, but droney community. Thank you, we’re still, building courses for you. Don’T worry, hey guys.
This is dj in nashville. Just uh wanted to call in and ask you guys about the adjustments to the new part 107 role in regards to flying at night and flying over people. I typically fly in inspire 2 and some other dji drones, but with the way everything was worded, it does seem a little confusing and i’d love to get a little bit better handle on that before i risk getting a big fine. So if you guys can help me out, i really appreciate it. Looking forward to hearing thanks dj smart to uh, make sure you understand what the new rules are, so that you can be sure and follow them and we’ve talked previously about. If you have a question something’s on your mind, that is probably going to help a lot of other people. This question is a perfect example of that it’s, going to help a lot of different people that are out there listening so dj. Thank you for taking the time askdroneyou.com for your question that could have the same benefit to all the other listeners so hop into this all right, so part, 107. Drone rule changes for 2021 also do understand that some of these rule changes will not go into effect until 2023, but we will make sure to succinctly: let you know what is affected and when let’s go macro. 60. 000 foot level main changes to part 107. Drone rules number one macro, part: 107, recency test has been removed and it has been replaced with recurrent training.
Number two uh macro thing: that’s been changed as of march 21st; no more need for nighttime waivers; uh macro number, three um, the part 107. For for new pilots taking the part 107 test. There will be new questions: okay, two uh to the test, but that’s only for new pilots. So if you actually already have your 107 guess what the faa rewarded you, because you took the easiest version of the test that will ever exist so good job and you passed uh so um they also removed. Now. This is as of march 2023. They removed flight over people waivers and they have four categories of drones: um that fit within the flight over people, abstract, based off of what you’re trying to do and the size of your drone certain drones fit within those categories. Rob this is a great time to say, if you remember our episode from 2017, i believe it was like episode 608, or that was not the episode number, but i it’s in the early 600s. Remember that um we quit, we did a show. We did a show that uh talking about um flight over people standards and what we said in that show and forecast three four years ago is almost ninety percent correct uh. So when it comes to drone you foreshadowing what’s gon na happen in the industry, you be uh, you be the judge. Okay, the next macro thing that is uh changing and by the way, we’re gon na go deep on all these parts.
The next macro thing that is changing um: they added flight over moving vehicles, uh subject to certain categories of flight over people. This will go into effect march 2023. That could be a whole show in itself, because what they’re talking about is a drone pilot can transverse over moving vehicles, but then they’re saying that the drone has to fit within the categories of flight over people. But then it really begs the question: if transversing vehicles is going to be okay in the future – and we know people are already doing it like on a daily basis on youtube, does that mean it’s it’s like okay to transverse cars uh? Are you saying now uh huh yeah, oh yeah, i sure am so yeah. So basically another way of asking that question is: is anybody going to go after the people that that do it bingo and no bingo? You said it. I didn’t come on. Proof is in the lack of pudding: i’m, not even i’m, not even being critical i’m, just just we’re about the facts. I think that’s vic coming in here to uh just to tell us to tote the line and we’re not doing it. No, there no there’s, no line. I mean just calling a spade a spade. Uh, especially now that this is in place. I, which i think is part of the point you’re making that’s a hundred percent of the point i’m making and uh in all in all fairness, because the faa was so nice to us.
I mean they gave us a shout out in two of these documents. Look, i would just like to you know what i’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt here: okay, i’m, not sitting here to be critical, i’m, just calling it it’s reality, yeah yeah, but did you understand what’s complicated, something that i didn’t write in here? Something that i did not write in this rule change update was the fact that the faa tried to make it super clear that pilots are supposed to have their registration information, their 107 cert and any quote unquote. Documents required by part 107, which part 107 doesn’t require a flight log or maintenance log. It just says it’s something that you is in your best interest. You should do. That said. They also mention that they’re giving law enforcement, the exclusive rights and they’re, making it clear to pilots that you have to present your information to anyone in law enforcement, local, regional county state, federal, whatever yeah. And so i found that really interesting, because those are not new rules. Right, we’ve always had to have our registration, and so i reached out to a couple police officers – and i was just like so does this change – how you’re gon na enforce drone pilots yeah? No, absolutely not we’re completely swamped right now and so um yeah in our city. What are we 50 of the number of police officers that we should have yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so we’re in a unique position? But i think most police officer, police departments and many of them are shrinking that’s a whole other issue, poor guys, poor guys, anyways and by the way, by saying that what i said, for example, that is not encouraging people to go.
Do it at least it’s not intended to encourage people to go to this fly over people or fly over rob, but we live in a sensitive world. All i heard was go. Do the illegal thing right now: okay, fine, okay and moving on back to our part. 107 back to the whole checking ids thing: yeah checking registration, so that is a normal course of what happens when an officer pulls you over in your car right, yeah, there’s, a reason for that. Yes, so my my thinking is that there may become a time when officers find that there is a reason to do it with drones, just as the industry evolves right, yeah we’re, just not there yet that’s. A good point is adoption rate right, yeah and, and what are the? What are the triggers that maybe there’s, more uh nefarious uses of drones, and so they have to be more diligent to check the people that they see using them. So at some point as it evolves, it will probably come to that um, because humans are humans and on all sides of that spectrum. So anyways, i just thought i’d make that point, but so going back to the macro and let’s let’s dive in now, because the 2021 drone rule changes for part 107. Okay. Once again, i want to thank you for your patience, because we learned something really important regarding this recurrency stuff, so number one they removed the recurrency test.
If you already have your part 107 certificate now, you know why there’s no expiration date on it. Okay, they have replaced the recurrency test or the recency test, with recurrent training. Now before you go off the rails. If you are like me and you had to take the online version of the recurrency test last year and your six months are coming due. Don’T worry. Okay and again, i screenshotted this from an faa employee, telling another drone pilot to do this. So if i come under question i’m going to present the evidence that said this particular faa, employee who’s, very helpful to a lot of people by the way said that, if you’re, due right now for your recurrency wait until march 1st to go. Take the recurrent training. Now we believe that this training is going to be on faa safety team. Just like the recurrency test was last year. It doesn’t exist right now, but if you are up for recurrency as of february or if you had to do the online version of the test due to kovid last year, just wait until march 1st, okay to take the recurrent training. And if you are due, i would recommend that you complete said training by the end of march. The faa is kind of like giving us a little grace period, at least that’s. What i’m seeing it’s, not official by any means, um and i would say, don’t, take advantage of that right, they’re, giving us an opportunity, uh and frankly, take it yeah and that all makes sense, because, ultimately, it is in the best interest of the faa in the Industry via the faa to have people wait for the recurrent training so that pilots understand all the new stuff that’s.
A very important point, because there are, there are really new aspects to the recurrent training which, by the way, you will not take the recurrent training at a flight school. If you see flight schools advertising to do recurrent training for 107 realize that is a fraud, it is a scam. It is a lie and i hope those people’s business fails. Okay, i shouldn’t have said the last part but it’s true, all right. That said, um the recurrent training is through the faa portal. Again, it does not exist until march. Okay, that said, the new recurrent training will have information regarding night time flights right, because point number two about macro changes to part 107 is that they have removed the need for night time waivers. Okay, now really quick, because i saw a lot of people post um about the update to nighttime waivers and everyone’s, like we can all fly at night. Whoa pump the brakes, because every article that i read that was on the internet forgot to add the little tidbit that, legally speaking, you still need a strobe, not just for night flights. Civil twilight once civil twilight hits you got, ta have a strobe that can be seen for three statute miles and for all of the uh. You know. Uh super clever brand new drone pilots who think that the light on the bottom of their mavic will suffice. It will not and here’s the simple question for you: if i’m a plane and i’m flying over you.
How do i see it so let’s go back to please put your strobe and mount it on the top of your aircraft um. That said, um, instead of filing for waivers, you will be trained on nighttime operations. So again, this is also why you want to take the recurrent training as soon as possible. Right get it knocked out, because now you can go fly at night, willy nilly. As long as you have your strobe and you’re following the rules uh, you can go, fly uh at night without a lot of red tape, and i also just want to say a big thank you to the faa because they mentioned numerous times that uh. Because of drone, u almost uh – and i have the exact number in here, but almost 1500 pilots acquired their nighttime waiver because of our youtube, video and first off. I just want to say thank you to everyone who trusted us. Second off. Thank you to the faa for recognizing the massive impact that droneu has had on the industry as a whole. All right number three part: 107. Pilots, new part, 107. Pilots, uh will have new part 107 questions, so i got bad news for you rob you get to take the harder version of the test. Yeah right Laughter. I just love it um, but if you do not have your part 107 certificate as of right now come march, there will be new questions, the question pool will grow and it will be a little bit harder so to clarify when we talk about having more part 107 questions will the test have more questions or will there just be a larger pool of questions because there’s more material to cover it’s my understanding that it’s just a larger pool, okay, so more material to know correct, okay, yeah things, including night illusions, limited depth perception Aircraft lighting requirements three statute miles guys three statute miles, not nautical statute, do it: okay, landing and takeoff requirements, crew requirements, aircraft avoidance protocols and emergency maneuvers.
I wonder if they put the tornado pattern in there. I wonder uh anyway, um number four: they removed part 107 new rules. Now this is going to be march 2023, okay, flight over people, no more waivers! Okay. As long as your drone complies with one of four categories, you will be able to fly over people. Wait. Wait wait, wait! Okay, just because they’ve removed the waiver. You still have to get a means of compliance. Nobody knows what this government vernacular means other than uh like because, as i started, thinking about this rob i’m like okay, okay requires faa, accepted means of compliance and faa declaration of compliance. How is that different from a waiver, like literally? How is that different from a waiver? The only drone that can fly over people without an accepted means of compliance or declaration of compliance is well if the mini 2 was technically compatible with remote id right now. The only drone would be the mini 2 because it’s sub 250 grams and so it’s, not a real safety risk to people, and as long as you had prop cages, you could right now well in 2023, you could fly over people uh with prop cages, and so One one story that i’m gon na do this week and pay attention to is the most valuable aircraft, and this is how you know. Dji knows what they’re doing the most valuable aircraft is a mini two right. We already know that mini twos have occusync.
They can be seen broadcast only that standard may not be the faas broadcast standard, but dji pretty much illustrated how remote id would work to the faa and the faa use that as an infrastructure. That said, we are assuming that dji will update ocusync in whatever forms to meet the broadcast requirement, so we’re, assuming the mini 2 or whatever, with an update, would be fine right. Just like, i said in my what drones work with remote id article it’s on the basis that well technically right now, none of these drones work because remote id’s in a few years – and you probably won’t, be flying any of these anymore, but if they could retrofit This is what it would look like. Okay, that said, mini 2. If it worked with broadcast remote id because of a software upgrade you had your prop cages on, you could go fly over people yep, you could go fly over people. You would not have to have a piece of paper from the faa that says: you’re an accepted means of compliance now here’s the thing. If you want to fly over people under category 2, category 3 or category 4, you do have to have some sort of means of compliance from the faa. We do not know what this means. We don’t know what the system is. We don’t know if you just email, fizdo and say: hey i’m flying a phantom and, according to virginia tech, that’s less than 11 pounds of kinetic energy.
Thus i meet the requirements of category 2.. We don’t know if that’s going to be the system or if the system is going to be manufacturer related now in the documents from the faa, it alluded to that there would be manufacturer guidelines to follow in order for these drones to be compliant. I hate to bring up the issue here, faa legal department, but it might just give you three weeks of work with this next statement: um but uh. How is manufacturer standards or guidelines or manufacturer compliance? How is that at all enforceable for the faa? There are no aircraft certificates for drones, uh unless it’s a par 135. So i don’t understand how this is enforceable if they were to try to enforce manufacturers to comply with these guidelines i mean, and by the way you can go read if you go read dji’s comment on remote id. I believe it was section two where they talk about the authority of the faa and outright call out the fact that drone manufacturers are technically toy manufacturers seriously and until there’s aircraft certificates for part 107. How are they going to enforce any manufacturer companies that’s, not their jurisdiction at all, correct yeah? Now, if they’re, like okay, all part 107, drones now have to have an air worthiness certificate right like a boeing, 737 uh then sure they could enforce it um. Now. That said, let’s look at the flip side of the coin. Do we think dji with everything that’s just happened in the last three months, is going to say no we’re not going to listen to your compliance yeah, probably not because it would murder their sales.
So well back to a spade a spade here, rob yeah for sure and and obviously we never know, who’s talking in the background in the back channel, so to speak right. I think we’re uh we’re getting past that point of naivete to think that it’s not happening on some level and again i don’t mean it from uh. You mean a legal standpoint, you mean just influence on the fa’s decision, making influence and just uh kind of backroom deals and and not even illegal, just conversations that they’re ethically questionable, potentially and and we don’t know of any i’m. Just saying i got a couple recordings that i keep in my back pocket for a rainy day. I know i know nothing about those recordings: hey hey. I just pulled uh uh herbert that’s, all i’m. Just saying people talk as they should. I mean i don’t know. It’S kind of the way of the world. Well, you know what, though you come to a point in life where you realize it’s better to work with people, but you also can’t be afraid to enforce boundaries, and i think that that’s, why? I rub people uh the wrong way. A lot of times is because there’s just certain things i just won’t put up with i just i’m sorry, but i believe that what you’re doing is not in your best interest and so i’m, not going to sit here and enable you to do it. You know all right be careful that you don’t become elitist.
Sounding right, let’s go better than you so i’m gon na make the rule that doesn’t. Let you do what you think is best for you. Well, rob i’m, not a cnbc analyst, so we don’t have to worry about that it’s. A fine line let’s be careful with that! No, you are very right. It is an extremely fine line, but let’s get on so part 107 updated drone rules. The last thing that we’re talking about here is flying over moving vehicles again, this is march 2023, but this does bring up a very important question that we could probably do an entire show on. Let me read this really fast. The faa addressed numerous concerns of flight. Over moving vehicles, as most of the industry stated that routine operations were indeed safe without specific circumstances. The faa will allow routine fight over moving vehicles, but not sustained flight. The drone pilot must be traversing unless the operation is in quote, unquote a restricted access area and they do define what that means. Um but, for example, um uh the catch in order to have routine flight over moving vehicles. Your drone must meet the requirements of the flight over people. Categories stated above so that means, if you’re flying that mini 2 and you’re transversing cars. Again you got the prop cages on you: don’t need the faa means of compliance whatever. That means. Okay, you can just go ahead and do it but rob this brings up an important question and uh.
We kind of hit this on the previous recording of this show um, which is never to be heard, which is uh. You know with the faa saying: okay flight over moving vehicles come march, 2023 is cool with us. Now you got ta be within one of the categories of flight over people right, but the dumbest of the dumb pilots are, we shouldn’t call them dumb, um ill advised blissfully, ignorant, uh giddy of excitement and not looking at the rules of flight. Whatever you want to label it, as i don’t really care, the important part is: is that people flying a mini 2, one of the cheapest drones out there is going to be able to fly over people. Come 2023 they’re going to fly over moving traffic right, which is fine, because drones are safe, we’ve got millions and millions of flights and almost no crashes and the only crashes we’re having are really nefarious things going on. So that said, this is really empowering to see but rob. This brings up a question. What about flying over or transversing moving vehicles between now and 2023 don’t? Do it um look. This is different from the first recording. No, but the bottom line is, i think what we’re referring to here is that it’s really not being enforced, because we know people doing it basically on a daily basis, and so is it going to be enforced like? Is it something that they even care about? Now? I mean like, if you were in law enforcement and someone was like there’s a drone flying over my house.
Are they flying over moving vehicles like you know those questions don’t happen. You know like that, just doesn’t. Maybe they will now it’s like tsa. When you got a backpack full of batteries, oh you’re, a drone pilot right it’s not like taking the watt hours, multiplying it times the batteries to figure out what’s, really going on yeah, so no um, but obviously it’s, not legal until march of 2023. But go ahead. No, you go ahead now, it’s going to kind of bring up a whole different point. So let’s finish this point, so i would like to say uh, because the faa gave drone pilots a voice because they listened to us because they gave us the benefit of the doubt. I think it’s important, not only the rules of reciprocity, but in the rules of being a good human to give them the benefit of the doubt as well and uh i’m, not sure that they will actually give us an answer about this i’m sure that it would Just be the faa’s toted line of no no, no do what you’re supposed to do until march 23.. Well, of course oh yeah sure, but uh um. Does anyone really care if i transverse a vehicle between now, and then i mean, and it really doesn’t seem to be an issue now, so it would be nice to get an answer from the faa to provide guidance on this i’m. Just not sure if we would get guidance on something i guess i’m i’m, not understanding, because it’s not okay right now, so the guidance is don’t.
Do it right i mean that is the guidance. You could also easily assume that, because transversing vehicles will soon be legal with certain vehicles that one would assume and i’m talking, there’s a certain audience that would assume that it would be fine, and you can assume all you want of the world is full of assumptions. Rob but i mean the argument that you’re i i think that you’re making we could just move back up our list and start making that same argument on flying over people in general right that’s, a very good point: rob here’s my thing. Moving on a little bit the idea of transversing a vehicle, but this, what does it say? You cannot fly directly over or something not sustained flight sustained flight over moving vehicles, and they said very specifically in the long document it’s, because a bunch of people were like well, the drone could be a distraction to drivers and thus cause an accident, so it shouldn’t Be like a sustain okay. So how do you define directly over vehicles because, if you’re doing some sort of filming of a vehicle you’re never going to be like right over the vehicle? That’S, not really a cinematic move? Right, i mean you’re somewhere outside of the actual vehicle, and so is my question making sense we got another disconnect. Do you mind saying that one more time i’m, not sure i understand what you’re saying here all right concerns of flight over moving vehicles, blah blah blah fa will allow routine flight over move, but not sustained flight.
So transversing literally means going over the vehicle, but is it okay to have sustained flight near a vehicle if you’re not directly over it um seems okay to me it seems uh. Let me put my i think, that’s an important point. I think let me put my lawyer cap on here. Um, i don’t know uh. No, no, i would say depends well that’s what a lawyer would say it depends um. I would say that the assumption is that it’s, okay, but once again don’t forget about the faa’s catch all gotcha right. What is that it’s? A careless and reckless flight, so what’s the fine line? You know i mean, like the same question, comes up in surfing i’m. Never flying over someone but i’m pretty close to them, so what’s too close you know over them is not okay, but it doesn’t say anything about around them and that’s a good thing, because canada did that in no offense canada, but that was dumb anyway go ahead. Well, according to this um let’s, see not sustained flight well, now, i’m, not seeing what i thought was in here. Where was something more talking about directly over the vehicle, but if that’s not a thing, then my question is kind of moot in the full text of the over moving vehicles. They really go into detail about considerations and when i think of sustained flight over moving vehicles, i think of some jackass flying their drone over a highway and flying over the highway going along with the highway yeah right now you see those videos in mexico and brazil, All the time i mean we even saw do you remember the big protests in la last year and someone flew a um fpv drone like 10 feet over the crowd right.
I don’t remember anything happening to that guy, hopefully i’m wrong um, but that’s. True and that’s. Also not like uh, someone on the internet said that uh some of the things that we said are the equivalent to going over the speed limit right, and i would argue that that’s not anywhere in the environment of correct because driving over the speed limit, statistically up Until a point, i think it’s, like 10 or 15 miles an hour, really doesn’t actually increase your chances of crashing. You have a higher chance of causing an incident. When there are numerous vehicles around you, that’s like go to the bmw driving school. They literally teach you over 35 miles an hour, never hit the brakes for a crash, accelerate change direction because you have a much higher propensity of not being involved in the crash yourself anyway. Long story short is flying over people is not and doing bvlos, and all this stuff is not like going over the speed limit. There are very real and very um horrible problems that can happen based off the environment that you’re flying in yeah. Most people don’t even know they’re supposed to have high altitude props i’m. Talking to you, people living in the rocky mountains right, so you don’t know what you don’t know and the reason i think that this is important to discuss is that flight over moving vehicles sustain flight. What does it really mean? I think you’re gon na have to use your best judgment i’m, not sure that there really is an answer and to your question regarding side.
This is why i said i don’t think we can expect like. While i want to give the faa the benefit of the doubt, i don’t expect them to answer this because it’s in their best interest, not to you know. So i agree that said um on this article uh. If you want to check out more information about all the different categories, what’s involved for flight over people, recurrency testing, etc make sure to check out our blog thedronu.com forward, slash blogs at the end of the article. I also posted a leaked image from the faa symposium. Really talking about, where are we going in the industry from here, and i would just like to remind everyone of that, but that’s going to go ahead and do it for us today? My name is paul. My name is rob and that’s kona barking. In the background.